03 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterThen Jesus was sure stupid to ask God to forgive his killers, wasn't he? Then again, your theology thinks pretty much everything Jesus said was worthless and/or superfluous.
God forgives and accepts everyone , but not everyone is humble enough to accept forgiveness from God.
On your other point , it seems ridiculous that Jesus died only for the past sins of the Jews , what about the rest of us? Jesus must have died for the whole of humanity over all time otherwise it's nonsense.
Your theology is all nonsense.
03 Jan 08
Originally posted by no1marauderJesus was completely stupid to ask for forgiveness for those who put him on the cross. What madness ! He must have been out of his mind! Oh boy...the foolishness of love eh?
Then Jesus was sure stupid to ask God to forgive his killers, wasn't he? Then again, your theology thinks pretty much everything Jesus said was worthless and/or superfluous.
Your theology is all nonsense.
04 Jan 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterKM: God forgives and accepts everyone , but not everyone is humble enough to accept forgiveness from God.
Jesus was completely stupid to ask for forgiveness for those who put him on the cross. What madness ! He must have been out of his mind! Oh boy...the foolishness of love eh?
Jesus: Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.
If KM is correct, then God forgives everyone and thus asking God to forgive someone is unnecessary.
If Jesus is correct, then God forgiving someone for their acts isn't automatic.
So who's correct KM; you or Jesus?
The one "out of their mind" is you IF you hold to the idea that you are both a "Christian" AND know more about God's will than Jesus does.
04 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderNo , you haven't understood. When Jesus is petitioning for us to the Father then that's what God looks like when he forgives . He forgives on the basis of Jesus and in his name.
KM: God forgives and accepts everyone , but not everyone is humble enough to accept forgiveness from God.
Jesus: Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.
If KM is correct, then God forgives everyone and thus asking God to forgive someone is unnecessary.
If Jesus is correct, then God forgiving someone for their acts the idea that you are both a "Christian" AND know more about God's will than Jesus does.
In a way when we see Jesus asking the father to forgive we are seeing God having a conversation or debate with himself about forgiveness.
For example , the Bible says that God is gracious and merciful long before Jesus dies on the cross , so one might ask why did Jesus have to die on the cross then? The answer is that the cross is an eternal act for all time ("For he was slain before the foundation of the world" ). So when Jesus dies , he dies for all time before and after 33AD (approx) and when he asks for forgiveness he has always been asking so to speak.
The answer to your question is that KM and jesus are both right and No1 cannot understand eternity because he's trapped in time and desperate to put a fly in the ointment wherever he sees a chance.
10 Jan 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterLuke 24:47
1) What exactly does "prior" mean if you are an eternal God?
2) Shows that the Father was removing himself from jesus and forsaking him - what's your explanation for this?
3) Can't remember exactly where it is but I know it's there.
It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in authority of his name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: 'There is forgiveness for all who repent'
All nations means ALL past and present/ "All" means everyone past and present. If he had meant only the Jews he would have said, "There is forgiveness for all the Jews who repent."
12 Jan 08
If Hitler was forgiven by god wouldn't it give everyone the right to do what they like until right at the end?
And if everyones forgiven anyway for the sins of all time, why bother with the ten commandments and trying to live a christian life?
Actually, presuming that god is omniscient, wouldn't making his son die to forgive the crimes of all humanity make a mockery of God sending 'the flood' that wiped out the sinners and evil doers the first time? If they were going to be forgiven anyway why kill them all by drowning?
12 Jan 08
Originally posted by eatmybishopIf he had genuine repentance and realised that he could be saved by believing in Jesus and asked God for the grace to do this then yes.
on his deathbed, if hitler had genuinely felt remorse for what he did, repented and asked god for forgiveness, would it had been given?
However, Hitler never had a deathbed, he shot himself.
12 Jan 08
Originally posted by FeastboyChrist did not die to save everyone, only those who afterward believe on him (or the saints in the OT who had a true faith that he would come and save them)
If Hitler was forgiven by god wouldn't it give everyone the right to do what they like until right at the end?
And if everyones forgiven anyway for the sins of all time, why bother with the ten commandments and trying to live a christian life?
Actually, presuming that god is omniscient, wouldn't making his son die to forgive the crimes of all humanity ...[text shortened]... ers the first time? If they were going to be forgiven anyway why kill them all by drowning?
12 Jan 08
Originally posted by FeastboyIf Hitler was forgiven by god wouldn't it give everyone the right to do what they like until right at the end? ------ feast
If Hitler was forgiven by god wouldn't it give everyone the right to do what they like until right at the end?
And if everyones forgiven anyway for the sins of all time, why bother with the ten commandments and trying to live a christian life?
Actually, presuming that god is omniscient, wouldn't making his son die to forgive the crimes of all humanity ...[text shortened]... ers the first time? If they were going to be forgiven anyway why kill them all by drowning?
It wouldn't give any rights becasue one would not only have to repent of what one had done but also repent of taking God's forgiveness so lightly and abusing it. Every time one sins one loses a part of oneself and moves further away from love and God , repentance requires one to go back towards God. God might still forgive you but you might lose your capacity to repent because of the person you had become. If you crush your conscience and extinguish it then your capacity for receiving God's love could be lost. You would no longer know how to receive forgiveness .
14 Jan 08
Originally posted by Hells CaretakerYou miss the point. In my view we are all forgiven but that does not mean that we all receive forgiveness. It's a bit like winning lottery tickets , some of them are not claimed.
Does'nt one have to be a believer to be forgiven ?...Der Furher was most definately not and anyway the man saw himself as the embodyment of the German nation and not as an individual answerable to a God.....In my opinion if he was a man of religious faith then no.