30 Mar 05
Originally posted by Darfiusi guess my view on how one gets to heaven is incorrect.
Heaven is not a place for obediant servants.
apparently instead of serving God obediantly with all my heart, soul, and mind, i'm supposed to sit back and let the world perish before me? what a loving child of God i would be then.
plz dude.
"Do not merely listen to the word, and so decievce yourselves. Do what it says." James 1:22
"In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:17
mike
30 Mar 05
Originally posted by Darfiusyou still don't get it your church is a offshoot of the Universal Church , that Christ had Peter start and as such you storefront church owes it's existance to the Catholic's without who you never would never have heard about Jesus, except as a Jewish Rabbi that taught love of mankind . So stop you pitiful attempt to make yourself holy than thou, cause frankly you aint holy at all.Just a prejudiced fool.
The doctrine came clearly from the Word of God.
30 Mar 05
Originally posted by frogstompPeter was not the rock, he was a rock and he most certainly did NOT start the Catholic church with its head at Rome. Paul went to Rome.
you still don't get it your church is a offshoot of the Universal Church , that Christ had Peter start and as such you storefront church owes it's existance to the Catholic's without who you never would never have heard about Jesus, except as a Jewish Rabbi that taught love of mankind . So stop you pitiful attempt to make yourself holy than thou, cause frankly you aint holy at all.Just a prejudiced fool.
31 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusMathew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail
Peter was not [b]the rock, he was a rock and he most certainly did NOT start the Catholic church with its head at Rome. Paul went to Rome.[/b]
against it
The word Catholic (katholikos from katholou -- throughout the whole, i.e., universal
and to my recollection Peter ,Paul and Mary didn't start your storefront church so Puff on that.
31 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by frogstompPetros
Mathew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it
The word Catholic (katholikos from katholou -- throughout the whole, i.e., unive ...[text shortened]... didn't start your storefront church so Puff on that.
"a stone" = Peter
petra
"a large bed-rock" = Rock
Peter was a piece of rock built on the bed-rock that was Christ.
All of the ohter apostles were foundation stones built on the foundation of Christ.
Ephesians 2:19-22
" 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit."
Revelation 21:10-14
" 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. 12 It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
Note that the "gates of hell" comment alludes to Revelations when the Jews will flee to Petra in Jordan to avoid destruction by the Antichrist.
31 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusWe must accept your instruction Greek etymology, where a vowel changes the meaning (and not its place in the sentence), while overlooking that you still, after many corrections in these forums, do not know the names of the books of the New Testament.
Petros
"a stone" = Peter
petra
"a large bed-rock" = Rock
[snip]
Note that the "gates of hell" comment alludes to Revelations
The Revelation of John is not plural, although interpretations of it are many and varied.
31 Mar 05
Originally posted by WulebgrCould you contribute to the discussion with your next post, or will your vendetta against Bible-believing Christians prevent you?
We must accept your instruction Greek etymology, where a vowel changes the meaning (and not its place in the sentence), while overlooking that you still, after many corrections in these forums, do not know the names of the books of the New Testament.
The Revelation of John is not plural, although interpretations of it are many and varied.
31 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusI have no vendettas.
Could you contribute to the discussion with your next post, or will your vendetta against Bible-believing Christians prevent you?
I would like to see a thread or two in these forums that discuss spirituality, but every time someone attempts to start such a discussion, it quickly becomes swamped by assertions of fundamentalist doctrines; in such an environment, I choose to contribute to the rear-guard action against mind-numbing literalism.
This thread, for example, began with:
Originally posted by Aynat
I read the post by shav about eternity with Christians and laughed and laughed until....I realized what it meant about the message that lots of Christians are sending out into the world...
I am no expert but when I think about Jesus...I think about water becoming wine to keep a celebration going, a picnic on a hillside with plenty for all and lots left over, many suppers with friends and storytellings and an occasional healing or saving. Didn't he hang with whomever (leper, tax collector, prosititute, fishermen, tentmaker) wanted to hang with him? I don't recall him forcing himself or his ideas on anyone. I don't recall judgement or damnation.
Yes, I recall the incident at the temple...so even Jesus could lose his cool...but I don't recall him calling down a rain of hellfire eternal damnation on those people.
Weren't his last words as a man about forgiveness and making sure his Mom would be okay?
Again, I could be wrong but when Jesus left, didn't he say to spread the word but also to tend the poor, feed the hungry, visit the sick and imprisioned? Weren't we told to love one another? Weren't we told to do as he had done?
Obviously, I am a christian of sorts...maybe not a great one by some of what I have read in the forums (actually, not a very good one by my own lights)
I think it may be time to go dancing and have a drink with some friends and share a story or two. Of course, I could be wrong....
Aynat's focus on the humanity of Jesus reflects more of the joy and truth of Christianity, as I see it, than literalists have offered for as long as I can remember.
If you would contribute to this marvellous effort to discuss the humanity and celebration at the heart of the teachings of Jesus, I would not have a reason to oppose you so vehemently.
31 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DarfiusYou convienently ignore "That thou are Peter ..."
Petros
"a stone" = Peter
petra
"a large bed-rock" = Rock
Peter was a piece of rock built on the bed-rock that was Christ.
All of the ohter apostles were foundation stones built on the foundation of Christ.
Ephesi ...[text shortened]... flee to Petra in Jordan to avoid destruction by the Antichrist.
Peter was an Apostle , do you really think Christ was talking to an actual rock ????
and Paul wasnt there. so he wouldnt know squat just another case you you using Paul to overrule Christ !
31 Mar 05
Originally posted by frogstompWhat exactly are you talking about? He called Peter a stone and explained that the Apostles would be stones upon the foundation (Christ).
You convienently leave out "That thou are Peter ..."
Peter was an Apostle , do you really think Christ was talking to an actual rock ????
and Paul wasnt there. so he wouldnt know squat just another case you you using Paul to overrule Christ !
I explained this clearly in the post.
The Catholic Church's claims are false.
31 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DarfiusChist was saying Peter solid as a rock so he was chosen to be the leader of the church after the cruxifiction
What exactly are you talking about? He called Peter a stone and explained that the Apostles would be stones upon the foundation (Christ).
I explained this clearly in the post.
The Catholic Church's claims are false.
Mathew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon
Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my
Father which is in heaven.
NOT stones : a rock : ONE
16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this
rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail
against it.
NOT stones : a rock : ONE
