28 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterNo one goes anywhere but in the ground when they die. When Christ returns for His church....then.…
No one goes anywhere but in the ground when they die. When Christ returns for His church....then....
1Thes 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them i ...[text shortened]... ath.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(NKJ)[/b]
What about those who are cremated? What about the actor who played Scottie on Star Trek who was blasted off into outer space when he died?
1Thes 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
There is more than one way to interpret these verses. Those who are dead in Christ are alive and well right now. They are out of the grave and walking around. This is why Jesus said let the dead bury the dead.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
(NKJ)
The unbeliever will be raised at the Judgement...only to die again in the Lake of Fire.
Those who are alive in Christ are walking around out of the grave as well. The fact that the scripture says that they remain may mean that they are the ones who are here on earth and haven’t yet gone to Heaven with the rest of the believers.
Rev 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(NKJ)
Pretty ominous, also pretty symbolic I suspect.
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29 Nov 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressWow.....that is all I can say...🙂
[b]No one goes anywhere but in the ground when they die. When Christ returns for His church....then.…
What about those who are cremated? What about the actor who played Scottie on Star Trek who was blasted off into outer space when he died?
1Thes 4:16-17
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of ...[text shortened]... fe was cast into the lake of fire.
(NKJ)
Pretty ominous, also pretty symbolic I suspect.[/b]
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI'm kind of finding out some things about this I had not counted on. These churches that handle snakes often do not have a specific time or day for their church service. You also don't know if the snakes will show up. If someone brings them, well it may be part of the service.
I wouldn't count on it if I were you.
Also , the times for church are somewhat irregular, like Friday night or Saturday night with no church on Sunday morning. I talked with a funeral director yesterday and he was telling me that it is the custom of these churches to put snakes in the casket so he has to count how many go in just to make sure the same number comes out.
I think I'm learning where the expression "backrow Baptist" comes from.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by kirksey957What on earth are you up to, Kirk ? .... I mean we have some disagreements once in a while, but heck .... don't go walking in a snake-pit ..... you might hurt the snakes ... no, but seriously Kirk, lay off those crazy ideas and go and visit Disneyland or something. No, better go and live there .... lots of people need counseling and conversion over there, I'm sure ..... Why do you think those snake-handlers need you ? Get the hell out of there ..... NOW !
I'm kind of finding out some things about this I had not counted on. These churches that handle snakes often do not have a specific time or day for their church service. You also don't know if the snakes will show up. If someone brings them, well it may be part of the service.
Also , the times for church are somewhat irregular, like Friday night ...[text shortened]... umber comes out.
I think I'm learning where the expression "backrow Baptist" comes from.
29 Nov 05
Originally posted by The Chess ExpressWhoa Dude!
[b]We all deserve it! 'All have sinned, and fall short of the Glory of God. ' Romans 3:23
Yes, but this doesn’t mean that there is nothing that we can do about it.
Matt 5:48 Be yee therefore perfect, even as your father which is in heaven is perfect.
And yet He offers the punishment that Jesus suffered in our stead, to be suffici ...[text shortened]... chieve the purpose for which I sent it.
Phil. 1:6 He will finish the work that He has begun.
I've never heard this suggested before! Are you really saying that you think the correct doctrine of the Church should be that, since Jesus died on the cross for our sins, all people are thereby automatically forgiven?
Sorry. This does not make sense. It flies in the face of free will, for one thing, as well as many verses relating to believing, receiving, accepting, repenting etc. etc..
By the way...Hell is not any way to repay for our sins. Hell is simply being forever away from God...the only possible result following the choice to avoid Him.
The verses you used to argue your point are all taken out of context, and have more apparent meanings.
29 Nov 05
2 edits
Originally posted by chinking58Whoa Dude!
Whoa Dude!
I've never heard this suggested before! Are you really saying that you think the correct doctrine of the Church should be that, since Jesus died on the cross for our sins, all people are thereby automatically forgiven?
Sorry. This does not make sense. It flies in the face of free will, for one thing, as well as many verses relatin ...[text shortened]... rses you used to argue your point are all taken out of context, and have more apparent meanings.[/b]
I've never heard this suggested before! Are you really saying that you think the correct doctrine of the Church should be that, since Jesus died on the cross for our sins, all people are thereby automatically forgiven?
Sorry. This does not make sense. It flies in the face of free will, for one thing, as well as many verses relating to believing, receiving, accepting, repenting etc. etc..
No, this is not what I meant. We all have to choose God to receive God, and this is what we all will do in the end. Some will go through Hell, but all are redeemed.
I Tim 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our savior. 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rom. 14:11 It is written: `As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'
Psalm 65:2 O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
Psalm 64:9 And all men shall fear, and shall declare the work of God; for they shall wisely consider of his doing.
The Bible is chalked full of verses that indicate all will be saved. These are only a few verses I could’ve used.
By the way...Hell is not any way to repay for our sins. Hell is simply being forever away from God...the only possible result following the choice to avoid Him.
God will not let a soul burn in Hell forever. How is this the only possible result?
Heb 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Psalm 139:7-10 Wither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art their: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art their. If I take the wings of the mourning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
These passages tell us that God is always with us, even in Hell.
Psalm 106:1 PRAISE YE the Lord. O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth forever
Here David tells us that Gods mercy is eternal.
Psalm 16:9-11 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt show me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore..
Psalm 18:4-6 The sorrows of death encompassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid. The sorrows of hell encompassed me about: the snares of death prevented me. In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
These verses are pretty self explanatory. David got sent to Hell and was released again.
Lam 3:22 It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
More of the same.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without inequity, just and right is he.
God is just and fair right? So an eternal punishment based on the few years that we are here on earth in impossible. This is not fair. The punishment does not fit the crime.
The verses you used to argue your point are all taken out of context, and have more apparent meanings.
Please put them in context for me. Also, read the parable of the wicked servant in Matthew 18. Jesus describes what happens to a soul who goes to Hell. Pay attention to verse 34
Matt 18:34 “And his Lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.”
Till is the key word. Here Jesus says that Hell is just to pay for sins that have not been forgiven and then the soul is released.