- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Often the death of a person is significant to the world according to the greatness of that person. Everyone's death is of course significant. But in history the more significant a person's life has been the more impact their death has on the world.
Jesus Christ's death has uncalculable importance. He is called the second man, meaning he is like Adam 2.0. He is the beginning of a new humanity.
He is also called "the last Adam". So His death concludes a great affair and initiates a great affair.
Though it is difficult to understand or explain, when He died His death was all-inclusive in bringing the world into death with Himself. Creation went into death with this last Adam. He concluded a great matter and in resurrection initiated an even greater realm.
Paul pioneered in taping into the great spiritual significance of the death of Christ and used it. Not only for His redeeming blood he used it but for its power to conclude so much in its terminating power.
" For the love of Christ constrains us because we have judged this, that One died for all, THEREFORE ALL DIED.
And He died for all that those who live may no longer live to themselves but to Him who died for them and has been raised." (2 Cor. 5:14,15)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
The Holy Spirit being received brings us into union with Christ and His work. Then Christ and His work can spread and permeate through our soul. It is union with Him which can apply His work over all of our being, saving us.
Just to call on the name of Jesus the first thing in the morning causes the Holy Spirit to spontaneously kill off, terminate, germs in your soul and mind and infuse new life into you.
Do you know what will happen to you if as soon as you awake in the morning you praise God that Jesus Christ has died for you? You begin each morning taking your stand as being one with Christ and God will honor your faith and make is so.
One more quote from Paul.
"But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been crucified to me and I to the world.
For neither is circumcision anything nor uncircumcision, but a new creation is what matters." (Gal. 6:14,15)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
The believer in Christ DIED with Christ and is RESIN with Christ.
"For you died and your life is hidden with Christ in God." (Col. 3:3)
This is an appeal to exercise faith which God the Father will honor and cause its truth to operate in your life. Because you trust in Him and do not lean on your own understanding.
Edify your spirit once again reading this aloud -
"If therefore you were raised together with Christ, seek the things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
Set your mind on the things which are above, not on the things which are on the earth.
For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory." (See Col. 3:1-4)
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
@divegeester saidWhat exactly would depress the believer?
Answered: For both.
Perhaps you can reciprocate and answer the question he is too scared to:
Will someone who commits suicide be tortured in hell forever?
To answer your question: I don't know, what do you think?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
dj2beacker,
What exactly would depress the believer?
To answer your question: I don't know, what do you think?
I know you are not like Divegeester in hijacking the thread always back to old debates. So I'm happy to address his O Soooo Scary!! question.
I don't believe suicide is a mortal sin which automatically leads to eternal damnation. That's my position until I have some reason to revise it.
His question:
Will someone who commits suicide be tortured in hell forever?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
I wrote a song to Paul exhortation to Reckon yourselves to be dead to sin, but living to God.
It has helped me to sing it, to memorize it, and to pray / proclaim it back to God. Wonderful! - the power of the living word!
https://soundcloud.com/jack-wilmore/sets/weapons-of-righteousness
The verse and song is Rom 6:11.
@sonship saidIf someone committed suicide, in part because of not being able to cope with your torturer god theology and all your gushing regurgitation of religious texts, and if they did so before you succeeded in exploiting their mental illness to "convert" them to your religion ~ perhaps so you could preen about it on some internet message board somewhere ~ would they be incinerated and punished forever as a form of divine revenge in your it's-not-a-metaphor "Lake Of Fire"?
I don't believe suicide is a mortal sin which automatically leads to eternal damnation. That's my position until I have some reason to revise it.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29234
@fmf saidLet us consider also:
If someone committed suicide, in part because of not being able to cope with your torturer god theology and all your gushing regurgitation of religious texts, and if they did so before you succeeded in exploiting their mental illness to "convert" them to your religion ~ perhaps so you could preen about it on some internet message board somewhere ~ would they be incinerated and punished forever as a form of divine revenge in your it's-not-a-metaphor "Lake Of Fire"?
Mr X suffers from schizophrenia and 24hrs a day is tormented by negative voices in his head that are depraved and completely out of his control. For the last 20 years, he has been trapped in a cycle of relapse and hospital admissions where almost every medication known to man has been given, and sometimes forced upon him. But still the negative voices persist, his every living moment torturous and void of any happiness. Finally, he has reached his limit and takes his own life.
Mr Z has been diagnosed with Altzeimers and over the last 10 years has lost almost all sense of self, his memories fragmented and fast disappearing. He no longer recognises his wife and is fast approaching the day when he will require 24 hour care to feed, wash and toilet him. While it is still in his power to do so, Mr Z takes his own life.
How, in either case, can it be claimed that 'Jesus Christ makes human suicide obsolete'?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
That is a very sad case of depression. And do not mean to trivialize the need for professional help. I did urge that it be sought.
For this instance though, and for others, we should not discard the oracles of God.
"Gid makes suicide obsolete" you may blame on me if you think it takes too lightly a very serious matter. There is no verse saying that exactly.
Now because I am ever positive about the promises of God, here is hymn on the matter. I think it was written out of experience.
Verses 4 on are the most relevant to this OP.
All I have in Adam is but sin and death,
I in Christ inherit life and righteousness;
When in flesh abiding, Adam I express,
But when in the spirit Christ is manifest.
2 When I am in Adam, though I may not sin,
Unto death, a sinner, sentenced I have been;
When in Christ I need not righteously to act,
I’m already righteous, justified in fact.
3 In the flesh I need no effort to express
Marks of Adam’s nature and its sinfulness;
In the spirit I need not to strive or strain,
I can live as He is and in spirit reign.
4 Thru my death with Christ, from Adam I am free,
Thru my life with Christ, new life is given me!
Minding not the flesh, old Adam cannot move,
Minding just the spirit, life divine I prove.
5 Minding just the spirit is God’s saving way,
Minding just the spirit, Christ we will display;
Minding just the spirit, we can overcome,
Minding just the spirit, we the race may run.
6 Minding just the spirit, we the cross will know,
And His resurrection pow’r thru us will flow;
Minding just the spirit, Christ will.live thru me,
And His life within will reach maturity.
7 In the spirit Christ is life and all to me,
Strengthening and blessing all-inclusively;
Living in the spirit, holiness I prove,
And the triune God within my heart doth move.
Lyrics by Witness Lee
To get the tune - https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/593
@sonship saidIf you knew that someone was at risk of committing suicide and you deduced that throwing themselves into religious observance and community would grant them solace, would you counsel them to go ahead and do that - regardless of which religion it was - if you thought it would save their lives?
That is a very sad case of depression. And do not mean to trivialize the need for professional help. I did urge that it be sought.
For this instance though, and for others, we should not take seriously the oracles of God.
"Gid makes suicide obsolete" you may blame on me if you think it takes too lightly a very serious matter. There is no verse saying that exactly.
N ...[text shortened]...
Lyrics by Witness Lee [my bolding]
To get the tune - https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/593
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
This is a great song someone paid much price to pioneer into the experience of.
I would not immediately set out to hunt for excuses not to be benefitted from its message. Here again the last few so significant verses.
4 Thru my death with Christ, from Adam I am free,
Thru my life with Christ, new life is given me!
Minding not the flesh, old Adam cannot move,
Minding just the spirit, life divine I prove.
5 Minding just the spirit is God’s saving way,
Minding just the spirit, Christ we will display;
Minding just the spirit, we can overcome,
Minding just the spirit, we the race may run.
6 Minding just the spirit, we the cross will know,
And His resurrection pow’r thru us will flow;
Minding just the spirit, Christ will.live thru me,
And His life within will reach maturity.
7 In the spirit Christ is life and all to me,
Strengthening and blessing all-inclusively;
Living in the spirit, holiness I prove,
And the triune God within my heart doth move.
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29234
@sonship saidNo, it wasn't.
That is a very sad case of depression. And do not mean to trivialize the need for professional help. I did urge that it be sought.
For this instance though, and for others, we should not discard the oracles of God.
"Gid makes suicide obsolete" you may blame on me if you think it takes too lightly a very serious matter. There is no verse saying that exactly.
Now beca ...[text shortened]... ve. [/quote]
Lyrics by Witness Lee
To get the tune - https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/593
My examples were not about depression or sadness where 'finding Jesus' might give new fortitude and hope.
My examples were of untreatable and terminal conditions where there simply is no hope, only ongoing suffering, and loss of dignity. Again, for these people, how has Jesus made suicide obsolete?!
Edit: It's okay sonship not to know what you are talking about. Just don't create threads about it to highlight the fact.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
My examples were of untreatable and terminal conditions where there simply is no hope, only ongoing suffering, and loss of dignity. Again, for these people, how has Jesus made suicide obsolete?!
I don't no that it was not treatable
I don't know that there was no dignity left and I don't know that there was no hope. I know it was a very unfortunate event.
Edit: It's okay sonship not to know what you are talking about. Just don't create threads about it to highlight the fact.
Not sure I caught your meaning here.
Let me briefly mention some people I have known who showed the overcoming side of Christ's salvation. All of these are true accounts.
1.) I knew a man who attempted to commit suicide by jumping from a high place. He broke his leg bones and became a cripple but he did not die.
He turned to Jesus Christ and became a fervent witness to Jesus in spite of this.
2.) I knew a woman whose daughter was murdered by a crack addict who doused the young woman with gasoline and light her up. The woman's daughter burned to death this way.
To my utter amazement that mother became a fervent witness to Jesus Christ. The withstanding of her tragedy was something supernatural as far as I am concerned.
3.) I knew of another man who is a fervent witness to salvation in Christ whose painful disease almost caused him to want to end it all in suicide.
4.) I know presently a man suffering from the continuous fibromyalgea. He has exhausted himself on doctors for decades who cannot help him.
He lives moment by moment on the grace of Christ. The empowering of the inward presence of Christ keeps him close to God. If you talked to him you would not know that he is in pain. But he is. He survives on the empowering of the Spirit of the resurrected Christ.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Ghost,
If Jesus was only the Lord and Savior of people without painful tragic circumstances He would not be much of a Savior. We cannot go lower than He. Underneath there are always His everlasting and strong arms.
I don't go looking for tragedies for myself and family.
But I believe He can always get beneath a person to uphold them in the darkest of times.
You have another way to hope and live? You go follow that.
I'm going to follow and still recommend "The Prince of Life."