Originally posted by KingOnPointJesus tells us to be like him. Jesus gave His life for our salvation. Jesus died on the cross as a repentence of Adams sin and the sin of mankind. Jesus stated the greatest gift a person can give is his own life for another.
Pudgenik,
There is no salvation in saving anyone's life. Man cannot try to keep the law and get to heaven through it. Saving a person's life and giving up your own doesn't fulfill the whole law.
I left more information at:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=157304&page=19
Keeping the law is doing the will of the Father, loving unconditionally.
You don't need to fulfill the whole law, i. e. the written scripture. It isn't knowing the law, but doing what the law requires.
A man who knows not the law of God, but does the will of God, pleases the Father.
Originally posted by KingOnPointWhat is your interpretation of the word 'believe'?
Rajk,
1) There is no salvation in saving anyone's life.
King James Version
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Acts 4: 10 - 12
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Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is th ...[text shortened]... ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rajk,
It took some doing to try to prepare this for John 3: 16 and
John 3: 18 in the King James Version of the bible. I have it on a Microsoft Word Starter file. I can't seem to get the greek words to come out on this posting so, I will just send you the English.
Web Sites Consulted
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http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=3&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_1000016
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=3&t=KJV&p=0#s=t_conc_1000018
John 3: 16
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
English Word: believeth
English Word: in
OUTLINE
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1. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
.....1. of the thing believed
..........1. to credit, have confidence
.....2. in a moral or religious reference
..........1. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
..........2. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
..........3. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
2. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
.....1. to be intrusted with a thing
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Rajk,
I had more information using another version of the King James version of the bible.
John 3: 18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The 2nd link I sent you in the previous post by me revealed what seemed to be a different greek etymology for the word, "believed." The word was spelled,
πίστις
I clicked on the normal greek root word which led me to that word just above. And an outline definition for that 2nd word included the following, although, it had more information:
I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
II. fidelity, faithfulness
.....A. the character of one who can be relied on
However, keep in mind that it isn't just a belief, but a belief "in" or "on" as shown in John 3: 16 and John 3: 18. It includes placing your soul's dependence on Christ to be your personal Savior.
Originally posted by KingOnPointSo the proof of belief is action, not talk [according to your definitions]. A follower of Christ demonstrates his belief by changing his life as shown in a passage you quoted:
Rajk,
I had more information using another version of the King James version of the bible.
John 3: 18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The 2nd link I sent you in the previous post by me revealed what seemed to b ...[text shortened]... nd John 3: 18. It includes placing your soul's dependence on Christ to be your personal Savior.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ... For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. (Romans 8:1-8 KJV)
There are two types of Christians - those who say they believe in Christ with their mouth and their life remains fleshly worldly and carnal .. those Christians are at enmity with God
The second type follow Christ commandments and they are the ones that please God becuase their life is spiritual.
Neither you nor I are in a position to know who fall into which category. Christ alone can read the heart of man to know if he is a changed person after his conversion.
Originally posted by KingOnPoint"No one can go to the Father, but through me" how were the Jews of the Old Testiment able to talk to God if God never changes?
Rajk,
1) There is no salvation in saving anyone's life.
King James Version
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Acts 4: 10 - 12
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Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is th ...[text shortened]... ; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
What does Jesus mean in this statement?
That we have to know who Jesus is?
Or that it is Jesus in our heart?
Paul states, a real Jew is not one who is physically circumsized, but who's heart is circumsized.
(spelling errors abound for all you spelling nuts)
Why would Jesus state, the greatest gift you can give to another is your own life?
Originally posted by PudgenikUnfortunate that most socalled Christians cannot stomach the teachings of the very same Jesus that they claim to worship .. sad.
"No one can go to the Father, but through me" how were the Jews of the Old Testiment able to talk to God if God never changes?
What does Jesus mean in this statement?
That we have to know who Jesus is?
Or that it is Jesus in our heart?
Paul states, a real Jew is not one who is physically circumsized, but who's heart is circumsized.
(spelling ...[text shortened]... ling nuts)
Why would Jesus state, the greatest gift you can give to another is your own life?
Rajk,
Abraham "believed" and it was counted unto him as righteousness.
King James Version
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Galatians 3: 1 - 6
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3: 11
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Here it is those who are made just through which live by faith and not by the law.
Many of the Israelites were stuck to law of God. Some also added to the law of God.
King James Version
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Matthew 15: 3 - 9
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
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I John 5: 11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
John 5: 37 - 40
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Luke 23: 33 - 34
And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Salvation is by faith in Christ Jesus. Following salvation Christ is then pleased with doing good.
King James Version
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John 3: 3 - 7, 9, 10
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. . .
Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Rajk,
Whatever the case, in our lives and everyone elses' lives, we must be born again first. Only then can God be pleased with us. Only then will God think well of any good we do. We must believe in Christ first.
King James Version
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Hebrews 3: 12, 17-19
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 4: 1-3, 6
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: . . .
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Rajk and All More,
Doing good works doesn't make us saved, but it can show that we have believed in Christ for our salvation. It can show that our faith was and is real. It can show that we were sincere in believing in
Christ for our salvation.
Secondly, I want to finish what I did not finish about the word root, "believe."
King James Version
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2 Timothy 1: 8 - 13
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Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.