if you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviur ---

Pudgenik,
God has not changed. But He sent Christ to be the Messiah which He planned ahead for. The evidence for Christ's purpose is in the Old Testament. Even Moses and prophets have scripture about Christ.

King James Version
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Malachi 3: 6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 6:18
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Luke 24: 25-27

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Pudgenik, RajK, ThinkOfOne, and All,

Doing good pleases God only after we are saved.

King James Version
==============
Romans 1: 17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Philippians 3: 9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 2: 16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

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Hebrews 11: 1-3, 6
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Hebrews 12: 1-2
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Pudgenik, RajK, ThinkOfOne, and All,

Doing good pleases God only after we are saved.

King James Version
==============
Romans 1: 17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Philippians 3: 9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, ...[text shortened]... endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
Pudgenik, RajK, ThinkOfOne, and All,

Doing good pleases God only after we are saved.

King James Version
==============
Romans 1: 17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Philippians 3: 9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, ...[text shortened]... endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

RajK,
Here are some verses that show that even people who think that they are doing good enough to please God will still be judged. We cannot do good and not believe in Jesus as Savior and still expect to go to heaven or even be with God. Doing good does not get man to heaven. It is through Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus said that only God is good. So if only God is good, then no one goes to heaven to be with God without being good to start with.

Man must be justified. This justification comes through Christ. Without the righteousness of Christ being applied to you and me, we cannot please God. Our doing good will get us no where with God. All unbelievers will be judged no matter how much of the law they try to keep. If God was so pleased with people who keep the law, then why are they condemned if they don't believe in Christ? Why did Christ come at all to save the lost, the sinners, if we can keep the law and go to heaven?


King James Version
================
Romans 1: 16-18
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
-----------------------

Romans 8: 1-9b
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

. . .Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
--------------------------------

Luke 13: 23-28
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,

Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
--------------------------

I John 2: 22-23
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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Romans 1: 18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

John 3: 36
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

I Corinthians 1: 18 - 27
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
--------------------------------

Romans 3: 20, 28
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 10: 1-11
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above🙂

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

RajK and All,
If Christ Jesus saw Nathanael as an Israelite who had no guile, then why did Nathanael need the Son of God? Why did he need the One whom "Moses in the law, and the prophets" wrote about?

King James Version
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John 1: 45 - 49
Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
shazam is an expletive I am familiar with .. surely "wha-la" is voila spelt incorrectly?

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
RajK and All,
If Christ Jesus saw Nathanael as an Israelite who had no guile, then why did Nathanael need the Son of God? Why did he need the One whom "Moses in the law, and the prophets" wrote about?

King James Version
=================
John 1: 45 - 49
Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law ...[text shortened]... hanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
RajK,
Here are some verses that show that even people who think that they are doing good enough to please God will still be judged. We cannot do good and not believe in Jesus as Savior and still expect to go to heaven or even be with God. Doing good does not get man to heaven. It is through Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus said that only God is good. ...[text shortened]... eaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

RajK,
I went back to the blueletterbible website and found the word for "believed" in the past tense in John 3: 18 of the King James Version of the bible. Remember that the greek words are not rendered into the RHP message window.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jhn&c=3&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1000018

John 3: 18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Greek Root Word: πιστεύω
Greek Word Used: πεπίστευκεν

Apparently, the Tense and Mood of the greek word adds more letters to the basic word.
Notice that the greek letters for "NE" preceed the basic greek word, and letters for "KEV" follow the basic greek word.
Tense: Perfect - Completed Once and For All Not in Need of Repeating
Voice: Active - Suject is the doer or performer of the action
Mood: Indicative - A simple statement of fact.

So the meaning of that special Greek word is still:

I. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
.....A. of the thing believed
..........i. to credit, have confidence

.....B. in a moral or religious reference
..........i. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
..........ii. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
..........iii. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith

II. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
.....A. to be intrusted with a thing

RajK,
I don't want to say that you can't perform things that are considered good works without being saved. What I want you to understand is that good works mean nothing for getting you and me into heaven. And that God doesn't care about our good works until we are saved to begin with. No matter what we do that are called "good works," they get us no where with God unless we are already saved in Christ Jesus.

King James Version
=========================

John 3: 3-7
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 3: 16-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 9: 30-33
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 3: 20, 28
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Matthew 7: 21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Titus 3: 5-7
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I Peter 4: 5-6
Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Matthew 23: 23 - 33
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

The Revelation 3: 14-19
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

The Revelation 20: 12, 15
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Revelation 21: 27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Luke 18: 9-14
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

RajK,
Anyone who thinks that good works will get them to heaven may think that Nathanael did not need Jesus to save him. Nathanael had no guile in him. He must have done good works from his heart. But still, Nathanael had to be saved by Jesus as well. So, anyone with good works must still be saved by Christ Jesus before He can go to God, the Father.

Originally posted by KingOnPoint
RajK,
Anyone who thinks that good works will get them to heaven may think that Nathanael did not need Jesus to save him. Nathanael had no guile in him. He must have done good works from his heart. But still, Nathanael had to be saved by Jesus as well. So, anyone with good works must still be saved by Christ Jesus before He can go to God, the Father.

RajK,
I hope to post more another time, but you seem to be missing that good works will not get anyone to heaven. Good works are not for getting people to heaven. Christ alone is the way. It is clear in scripture that a person does not need to do good works to get to heaven. You and I will never be able please a sinless God with our own righteousness.

God was well pleased with Christ. He has never been well pleased with any human sinner. At one point, God thought he would destroy man altogether. But Noah, who was a sinner found "grace" not payment for what he earned. Noah did not earn his way out of drowning. If God had not given Noah, "grace," then Noah would have been destroyed along with the rest of the unbelieving.

We must be born again, and there is no way to be born again by doing works. We are only born again by Christ Jesus. The bible is clear on that. Doing good works has nothing to do with going to heaven. If you think that is wrong, then you are ignoring the purpose of Christ's sacrifice and meaning of the Gospel. Christ laid down his life on purpose. He was not subject to man's abilities to kill him. If God had not wanted Christ to provide our way for salvation, then there would be no salvation apart from Christ. Man cannot earn his way to heaven no matter how many "good works" he does. We should give up trying to earn heaven. We should say along with Isaiah that our own righteousness is as filthy rags and that we are all as an unclean thing. He was a prophet of God. Futhermore, even John the Baptist had to repent. We will be condemned if we do not believe in Christ as our Savior. We only have to believe in Christ for our salvation in eternity. Please do not try to earn your way to heaven. You and I will never make it that way.

King James Version
====================
Isaiah 64: 6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Luke 7: 28
For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," [b]

(Romans 4:5 NASB)

[b]"What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

(Romans 9:30 NASB)

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

(Romans 10:4 NASB)

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Not by works, lest any man should boast."

(Ephesians 2:8–9 NASB)

"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

(Romans 11:6 NASB)

These verses in no way mean to say that one should not do good works for others. But the amount of works one does is in no way as good as the grace of God to save one's soul.