19 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonhouseCorrect, if there were several GC due to rivers over time I'd have to say it mean something
Nobody is 'spot' on, they give a range of dates, a window of uncertainty, that's all science can do, 14.5 billion years old plus or minus a half bil or so. Why do you think the GC proves nothing? Do you never believe anything you see with your own eyes? You think the universe is somehow deceiving you? What do you think is going on when there is over a mile ...[text shortened]... ice that comes quite regularly, that can happen in 6000 years? If you think it can, tell me how.
more. That still doesn't address where did everything come from question either which for
me is much more important than a river at the bottom of a canyon. Even if I gave you an
answer for your ice and other points it would not matter, you'd find something else since
you cannot handle ever the possibility God is real.
19 Nov 16
Originally posted by KellyJayI never said there was a possibility a god could be real. So when you say, I just don't know how old things are, do you still think it is 6K years old in spite of the overwhelming evidence against it, forced to believe it even if you don't want to admit it, you just say
Correct, if there were several GC due to rivers over time I'd have to say it mean something
more. That still doesn't address where did everything come from question either which for
me is much more important than a river at the bottom of a canyon. Even if I gave you an
answer for your ice and other points it would not matter, you'd find something else since
you cannot handle ever the possibility God is real.
"I don't know'' while pronouncing it's a million times more important to figure out how we got here and your answer is your god. You also say you could be wrong but you don't really think that.
On another note, how is your healing coming along?
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19 Nov 16
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouse
I would think you would be the last person to ask me if I thought men walked on the moon. Unless you didn't know I am part of the grand moon landing fake conspiracy since I was PART of Apollo, my job being on Apollo Tracking and Timing. I was stationed at Goddard Space flight center. Part of my training involved taking space co-ordinates and aiming a radio telescope on a NASA probe orbiting Mars and locking on to the tiny signal there, which I did.
Okay. I know an former NASA employee.
Just for the sake of argument, taking your credentials seriously let me see what you'd say. Unlike you I won't leave it all at a dead end "its all nonsense not worth talking about" move you do with Christians here all the time.
I also lived next door to another Goddard tech, a geological technician who I talked to one day, we both found out we worked at the same place. He invited me to the storage vault of the moon rocks and we went into a vault that would have made the mint proud and handed me a moon rock which looked very alien for sure.
Now now. a BIG SKEPTIC LIKE SONHOUSE isn't just going to say "It sure looked alien to me." Are you ?
Now some "moon rocks" given as a gift to a government official in New Zealand were latter analyzed and found to be a chunk of petrified wood. Now I wonder what in the world went on with THAT ?
NASA with is millions has the equipment to manufacture all kinds of rocks and synthesized materials. It is not impossible that FEW knew the the "moon rocks" were maniufactured.
Now, I do have some problems with SO MANY people being involved in a hoax. But maybe it didn't take that many people to cause a deception. Uncle Sam will do a lot of things if Uncle Sam thinks national security is at risk.
At this time I would not put beyond the secret service and powerful government entities to fool even employees of NASA and consequentially the general public. I would not put it past the US government to see a valid need to fake a moon landing if it thought being one up on the Soviets was at stake.
You're so skeptical and you haven't considered that? Seeing some things in a vault did it for you ?
But when I tell you of an empty tomb in Jerusalem and a failure to produce the corpse of an astounding man Jesus, you're sure its a hoax ??
My first question to him was why are you allowing me to handle this precious moon rock with my bare hands, his answer: We KNOW the surface is already contaminated so we slice them apart with a diamond saw to get at the inside which is NOT contaminated. It was almost a religious epiphany for me I can tell you, holding a rock that astronauts brought back from the moon.
Do you think it is possible that astronauts can survive the Van Allen radiation belts ?
Do you think we have solved the problem of the killing radiation surrounding the earth at about 1,000 miles out ?
Look sonhouse. They say they are working on that problem NOW. If they are working on that problem NOW, HOW did they solve it in 1969 ?
It is said that six feet of shielding is needed to keep a man alive going through the Van Allen Radiation Belts for too long a time. It is a problem that concerns NASA now.
But I thought they solved it when they went to the moon.
Something doesn't add up here.
I have to go for the morning.
19 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonhouseWhat overwhelming evidence? You forget that my greatest question puts at odds every
I never said there was a possibility a god could be real. So when you say, I just don't know how old things are, do you still think it is 6K years old in spite of the overwhelming evidence against it, forced to believe it even if you don't want to admit it, you just say
"I don't know'' while pronouncing it's a million times more important to figure out how ...[text shortened]... be wrong but you don't really think that.
On another note, how is your healing coming along?
method you are using to measure time! If you do not know how everything got here than
rates and distances may not be a measure of distant time, for all we know everything has
been in place for a short time and knowing how long distance and a rate will not be useful
when it comes to knowing distant time.
Thank you for asking, I'm feeling much better...my coughing has almost gone away which
is good since at its worse...I was gasping for air. 🙂
19 Nov 16
qOriginally posted by KellyJayThere was just an experiment showing things are the same here in terms of physics at a quasar 8 billion light years away. The speed of light is constant, proven to be the same everywhere in the universe and we know light from the sun takes 8 minutes to get here, it takes a couple of seconds to get here from the moon, all the radio waves and the equipment I worked on during the Apollo years, Apollo tracking and timing, the tracking part was a digital signal sent to Apollo on the way to the moon, and then in a device called a transponder, reversed course and sent right back to Earth and there NEVER was an inconsistency in any signals from that device EVER, it could have tracked exactly how far Apollo was from Earth even if it got a half million miles away, it was like a tape ruler in space. That is the thing you don't understand, there is NEVER inconsistency in time or space measurements, because now relativity tells us space and time are variables depending on two things, how fast you are traveling in space and how close you are to a gravity well, GPS has to take that into account, if they didn't GPS would be about as useful as a compass. Now they are talking optical atomic clocks a thousand time more accurate to go into satellites that will allow GPS to be accurate to within one INCH of any position on Earth. Even now they are good for a few feet, maybe 10 feet or so, they can accurately tell you exactly how fast you are driving or even walking no matter if you are in a jet going 1000 miles an hour or a walker walking at one MPH. Consistency means something.
What overwhelming evidence? You forget that my greatest question puts at odds every
method you are using to measure time! If you do not know how everything got here than
rates and distances may not be a measure of distant time, for all we know everything has
been in place for a short time and knowing how long distance and a rate will not be useful
when ...[text shortened]... ..my coughing has almost gone away which
is good since at its worse...I was gasping for air. 🙂
If we were limited to carbon 14 dating we couldn't tell the age of organics more than about 50,000 years and they know when they can use C14 and when they can't but time measure is not limited to C14, there are known deterioration rates of stuff like Uranium which transmutes to lead at a constant rate and that can tell deep time.
But they don't just depend on Uranium to lead ratios, there are at least a dozen other ways to measure the duration of stuff, how old things are. C14 is good for a few tens of thousands of years but Ice cores go back a million years, showing by extremely detailed analysis of isotopes in the air trapped in those ice bubbles, exactly what the atmosphere was like, how much CO2 and so forth, was the weather mild, bad winters and so forth, they can read those cores like a road map.
But even Ice core poops out at a few hundred thousand years but there are a dozen other ways and here is the key: They all agree within some window of percentage, and that window of percentage off gets smaller and smaller each decade that passes in the quest for knowledge. If and Ice core reading matches a tree ring (dentochronolgy) count and a C14 reading all point to the same age, you can be pretty certain the numbers are correct within some limits, like say ice core says something is 45,000 years old and C14 says 46,000 years old, and other measurements say 43,000 years old for some object, all that data saying the same thing means you can trust the age estimate.
It also works that way for the nucleotide techniques, like uranium to lead and there are literally dozens of those and they all converge on a date within some error, maybe 10% off but that is pretty dam good when you are looking at a rock from a billion years ago.
So the gist of all that is we have had literally several hundred years of scientific growth and when someone digging into tree rings sees the same thing a ice core scientist reads 10,000 miles away in Antarctica, you have to respect the results as actually meaning something.
If you just blanket say none of that means jack because you don't know EVERYTHING, you are chiding a child for not knowing differential calculus at age 5. You have to know we are still in science kindergarten, and have a long way to go to answer your big questions but I feel those questions will be answered even if it takes a thousand years of solid growth of science we have seen so far, which is not a given by any means. The next 200 years could see science and space travel go down the tubes if the climate takes a major dump and the seas rise by 50 feet like they are predicting. If that happens, the world will be a much reduced, literally reduced, no seaside cities, NY gone, Florida gone, Venice gone, so all the major money markets gone. It will be a sad world if that happens and it will be our own dam fault.
But I feel confident we can avoid the worse of it BECAUSE of science. There are already schemes afoot that literally captures CO2 and turns it into rock and if we get that going well enough, those kind of technologies can save our sorry asses.
It takes like 8 minutes to get here from the sun, 2 seconds to get here from the moon, 4 hours from Pluto and so forth, there are ZERO exceptions to that, it follows the rules of relativity where we KNOW time flows differently when you go fast and time slows down at the bottom of a gravity well. Astronauts age a few milliseconds less on the space station than they do on Earth, which of course is meaningless at that speed and altitude but if we manage to go close to the speed of light, it adds up to really big differences, like a dude with a twin going out on a space ship and his bro left on Earth and the space craft goes within a hairs breath of the speed of light, he might age a hundred times slower than his twin on Earth so he goes to a star 100 light years away and spends a year there, he gets back to Earth a couple hundred years later and he is only three years older but his bro has been buried for a 140 years. That is proven. That is not fairy tale. We know that to be true from a dozen separate observations which I could go into but I have been writing enough. The gist is, if several techniques measure some parameter like distance, time, gravity and so forth, and all say the same thing, you can have a certain probability, a good probability the results from all the sources saying the same thing, can be trusted to be real. That is how science works. They don't just put a mirror on the moon and flash a laser at it and measure the distance with no other techniques available and just announce, "THE SPEED OF LIGHT IS THUS:" It takes results from several different disciplines to say the same thing for a result to be trusted and by trusted I mean building machines that depend on those results like space craft or GPS, they all work because of the great number of different disciplines all showing the same thing, so everyone can agree, if we have a space craft with X amount of fuel, we know it can go Y amount of miles into the solar system and exactly and I mean EXACTLY how long it takes to get there. ALL BECAUSE OF MANY DISCIPLINES WORKING TOGETHER. That's the bottom line of science, not some local genius announcing X and the world falls over and plays dead, his result has to be independently verified in 5 different ways or more before the results are trusted well enough to for instance, send school teachers to space.
19 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonhouseWOW well when I can take the time to read your novel I'll respond.
There was just an experiment showing things are the same here in terms of physics at a quasar 8 billion light years away. The speed of light is constant, proven to be the same everywhere in the universe and we know light from the sun takes 8 minutes to get here, it takes a couple of seconds to get here from the moon, all the radio waves and the equipment I ...[text shortened]... more before the results are trusted well enough to for instance, send school teachers to space.
20 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonhouseWould any of these measurements be any different had God created the universe fully
There was just an experiment showing things are the same here in terms of physics at a quasar 8 billion light years away. The speed of light is constant, proven to be the same everywhere in the universe and we know light from the sun takes 8 minutes to get here, it takes a couple of seconds to get here from the moon, all the radio waves and the equipment I ...[text shortened]... more before the results are trusted well enough to for instance, send school teachers to space.
formed as it is today?
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Originally posted by sonhouse
There was just an experiment showing things are the same here in terms of physics at a quasar 8 billion light years away. The speed of light is constant, proven to be the same everywhere in the universe and we know light from the sun takes 8 minutes to get here, it takes a couple of seconds to get here from the moon, all the radio waves and the equipment I worked on during the Apollo years, Apollo tracking and timing, the tracking part was a digital signal sent to Apollo on the way to the moon, and then in a device called a transponder, reversed course and sent right back to Earth and there NEVER was an inconsistency in any signals from that device EVER, it could have tracked exactly how far Apollo was from Earth even if it got a half million miles away, it was like a tape ruler in space.
What would your comment be to those who have pointed out the following?
On Apollo 11 when the astronauts were showing on TV the earth, alledgedly being half way between earth and moon, a voice was heard coaching them when to speak. Some people believe that this was the voice of someone signally when the astronauts should talk SO AS .. to give the impression of a four second delay expected from the distance at which they were ?
I have heard that a voice can be heard prompting them ... "talk". And the delay was used to simulate a four second delay. Have you heard of this conspiracy theory?
Now I am opened to be disbunked. But this and other reasons influence my thinking these days that men were not halfway between the moon and the earth on that Apollo 11 flight. We were hoodwinked by a carefully staged special effects production.
Are you sure you want to believe everything NASA says happened ?
Check out - &t=59s
and
100% Proof That Apollo Mission Photos of Earth From Space Are Staged and Fake
&t=49s
21 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipWhy would anyone fake that?
[quote] There was just an experiment showing things are the same here in terms of physics at a quasar 8 billion light years away. The speed of light is constant, proven to be the same everywhere in the universe and we know light from the sun takes 8 minutes to get here, it takes a couple of seconds to get here from the moon, all the radio waves and the equi ...[text shortened]... Earth From Space Are Staged and Fake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fagGwOBYUkk&t=49s[/b]
21 Nov 16
2 edits
Originally posted by sonshipDid you not read my post about my own role in Apollo? You no doubt have to regard me as one of the ones who know it's fake. Which I catagorically deny. I was there at Goddard, I saw the incoming signals and the change of tracks from one radio telescope to another, my job was tracking and timing, timing being atomic clocks, Hewlett Packard models to be exact, two of them, one a cesium beam accurate to one second in about 2000 years and the other a Rubidium clock as backup accurate to about 1 second in 200 years and a third backup, a very well engineered crystal clock like we now have in our watches, but accurate only to one second in a couple of years, which is way better than our watches now except for the ones like mine which has a radio to receive the 60 kilohertz time hack signal from Fort Collins Colorado (NIST).
[quote] There was just an experiment showing things are the same here in terms of physics at a quasar 8 billion light years away. The speed of light is constant, proven to be the same everywhere in the universe and we know light from the sun takes 8 minutes to get here, it takes a couple of seconds to get here from the moon, all the radio waves and the equi ...[text shortened]... Earth From Space Are Staged and Fake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fagGwOBYUkk&t=49s[/b]
Anyway the atomic clocks were there to be able to switch from one radio telescope say in Australia to others because the Earth turns it causes one telescope to lose the signals from the moon so you have to have radio telescopes around the planet to be able to switch the signals and that has to happen within 100 NANOSECONDS which is why we need atomic clocks to sync all the switching from one scope to the next. (did you see the movie "Dish"? it was about the first Apollo landing and how their radio telescope was the one receiving the data and TV and audio from Armstrong as he stepped off the ladder, one step, etc., they almost blew it and the telescope was up maybe 5 minutes before that fateful transmission, high winds kept the scope from pointing at the moon till the last few minutes where they had to have the scope working, but it did and history is forever changed as a result.
All the millions of things that had to happen for the flight to be successful was probably 1/10th of the cost of faking it. Besides that, why do you think Russia or China, our avowed enemies ATT didn't call it a fake, a situation that would have resulted in a huge propaganda coup for either of them. It turns out they had radars tracking Apollo also and knew good and well where it went and when it got near Earth again.
So THEY knew it wasn't fake. The ones causing the trouble are AMERICANS. They have figured a way to make money on fakeness. Follow the money trail and you will find who benefitted financially from this fake fakeness.
But I am completely convinced you will never believe the likes of me who now you consider to be part of the conspiracy. That is your problem not mine. Yours and all the other people who have been thoroughly duped by the moon fake landing asssholes who are in it simply for the money, they are all young people who have an anti-science stance and cannot believe we could have been advanced enough to have ever pulled of a moon landing. One problem is Nixon. He made sure there was never a followup to Apollo, having pronounced a victory in the propaganda war against Russia, having beat them to the moon was all he was after, once that happened he considered it a successful publicity stunt and stopped Apollo in it's tracks.
It cost me my job and literally tens of thousands of other people too. The hoaxers came directly out of that miserable time for american science. The manned space program outside of low orbit crap came to a screeching halt and now nearly 50 years later we are in the process of basically redoing the original Saturn V booster that drove people to the moon, upgraded with 50 years newer technology but basically an upgraded Saturn V.
So I hope you are happy with that half century hiatus of the space program, it undoubtedly made you very happy not to see people going where you and others like you think man should never go.
Mars? Impossible, we should never go to places we don't belong. Even if it turns out going into the netherlands of the solar system ends up saving our sorry asses when the climate makes space travel impossible once more but if we beat the climate change to the punch and actually have viabe colonies on the moon and Mars and maybe outer moons eventually, it won't matter what happens to humans on Earth, humanity will save its sorry ass from the disaster it is in the process of creating for itself and the very existence of many other Earth species, if you were unaware, we humans are causing the greatest extinction event since the death of the dinosaures 60 million years ago.
I don't suppose THAT makes much difference to you either since you believe humans are the crown of creation and automatically have a huge place in your god's life, immortal souls bound to be next to your god since we are SO highly placed. Good luck with that and I sincerely hope the forces you represent won't stop us from actually leaving this planet of death behind and create a new culture of life on other worlds. And of course if that happens it won't be all bread and roses, of course people can be bad and that will undoubtedly be true a thousand years from now when what I hope comes to pass, actuall thriving civilizations on other worlds, there will be good people and bad ones and that means we will always need police forces but that is the breaks, that is how it will be no matter where humans end up.
But in the meantime I hope people like you come to the realization that there is also GOOD in science and space travel to other worlds is a big part of that, much as you hate it.
21 Nov 16
2 edits
Here is one moon landing denier debunking: The main premise, the technology to fake it was not there in the 1960's.
http://gizmodo.com/5977205/why-the-moon-landings-could-have-never-ever-been-faked-the-definitive-proof
We were barely using single board computers about as powerful as the commodore 64 ATT. I told you I was stationed at Goddard space flight center ATT and one of my jobs, I was told there were these mainframe computers that had to show use and they assigned me to several of them, where I was to sign on, do some operations and sign off. That showed usage for the more seldom used computers.
They assigned me 2 hours a day to do that. So I diddled with them and they were very primitive indeed. For instance, there was no screen, no keyboards, nothing like that. The output either went to a teletype machine or a card reader which was punched cards that you loaded by the thousands for a real job.
To enter a single word, there was a line of 16 switches, off and on, which represented individual bits and 16 of those represented 2 bytes of 8 bits.
So in order to do the simplest job from that control system required you to enter first one or two bytes representing your number, hit enter, then flip to the next number to say, add 2 and 2, then a word or two of certain switch flips to represent a code meaning "ADD". then the teletype would print out 4.
That was the state of the art of computers back then.
The actual power of the machine was not a whole lot better than a Commodore 64 in fact.
There was no such thing as computer graphics since there were no screens and no video cards at all, that stuff was years in the future. There was absolutely no way to fake any of the moon landings, for one thing, we didn't know how deep moon dust was on the moon and there was some concern the dust was a couple of meters thick, we had no way of knowing for manned vehicles, and another thing we did not know till people actually walked there, what the dust looked like, the path it would take when kicked by space boots. All that was only known after men landed and walked around.
But I can testify by personal knowledge the abysmal state of the power of the mainframe computers ATT, cell phones today have millions of times the processing power of those mainframe beasts.
One job I had there was with an engineer by the name of Horst Schlingloff, a German dude, very nice guy, he was designing the first interface of those early digital computers to the analog computers in use ATT. One job I had working with Horst was hand soldering the connections on a 28X28 pin cross connect board plug in, 784 connections that had to be connected correctly to simulate among other things, the project I was on ATT, simulating the rotation of a satellite to see if weight distrubutions inside the satellite would cause it to wobble, it has to spin without wobble and the analog computer did a decent job of figuring out the best configuration of parts around the inside perifery of the satellite.
So Horst figured out a way to make it more automated, eliminating the requirement of hooking up wire by wire maybe 700 connections which took over a week to complete, just for one program.
So he designed an interface of a primitive digital computer which would directly control the analog computer, doing the work of my patch panel but now just entering code on the digital computer which interfaced to the analog computer. I bet you never even HEARD of an analog computer but that was state of the art in the 60's.
It was flat ass impossible to generate ANY kind of image by computer in those days and they didn't know jack about what men would look like cavorting around on the moon ATT. It took actually landing there to see for ourselves what that would look like.
The asssholes who write up these video's should be tried for treason against the United States of America that is how bad they are.
Those '100% proof's of a moon landing fake' videos are just that: TREASON and should be looked at as such and the writers should be in jail IMHO.
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21 Nov 16
3 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayI think a motivation would be intense Cold War competition for world dominance and display of technical superiorit. National Security could be the main factor. They may have deemed it, (and rightly so) a matter of National Security.
Why would anyone fake that?
There was a race for the A Bomb.
There was a race for the H Bomb.
There was a race for space flight.
Why not a race for the moon with hidden military motives in the secretive backround?
They may have gotten up to the point of doing it and realized that they could not, and fell back on a Plan B - Fake It.
Maybe - Fake It Now, and make up for it latter by really doing it.
21 Nov 16
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipNo, intense cold war would have motivated the Russians and the Chinese to make the fake moon landing crap, but they didn't. I gather you didn't bother to read my posts. It was AMERICANS who started the moon landing hoax bullshyte.
I think a motivation would be intense Cold War competition for world dominance and display of technical superiorit. National Security could be the main factor. They may have deemed it, (and rightly so) a matter of National Security.
There was a race for the A Bomb.
There was a race for the H Bomb.
There was a race for space flight.
Why not a race fo ...[text shortened]... ack on a Plan B - Fake It.
Maybe - Fake It Now, and make up for it latter by really doing it.
And it seems to have fully engulfed your mind to the point you don't know up from down.
So all the words I wrote meant absolutely nothing to you. I guess that means there is no more reason for me to try to convince you of ANYTHING since I have to now be part of the vast conspiracy.
Here is part of the story:
From a WIKI on the hoax conspiracy
"An early and influential book about the subject of a moon-landing conspiracy, We Never Went to the Moon: America's Thirty Billion Dollar Swindle, was self-published in 1976 by Bill Kaysing.[8] Despite having no knowledge of rockets, or technical writing[9] Kaysing, a former U.S. Navy officer with a Bachelor of Arts in English, was hired as a senior technical writer in 1956 by Rocketdyne, the company which built the F-1 engines used on the Saturn V rocket.[10][11] He served as head of the technical publications unit at the company's Propulsion Field Laboratory until 1963. Kaysing's book made many allegations, and effectively began discussion of the Moon landings being faked.[12][13] The book claims that the chance of a successful manned landing on the Moon was calculated to be 0.0017%, and that despite close monitoring by the USSR, it would have been easier for NASA to fake the Moon landings than to really go there.[14][15]
In 1980, the Flat Earth Society accused NASA of faking the landings, arguing that they were staged by Hollywood with Walt Disney sponsorship, based on a script by Arthur C. Clarke and directed by Stanley Kubrick.[Note 1][16] Folklorist Linda Dégh suggests that writer-director Peter Hyams' 1978 film Capricorn One, which shows a hoaxed journey to Mars in a spacecraft that looks identical to the Apollo craft, might have given a boost to the hoax theory's popularity in the post-Vietnam War era. She notes that this happened during the post-Watergate era, when American citizens were inclined to distrust official accounts. Dégh writes: "The mass media catapult these half-truths into a kind of twilight zone where people can make their guesses sound as truths. Mass media have a terrible impact on people who lack guidance."[17] In A Man on the Moon,[18] first published in 1994, Andrew Chaikin mentions that at the time of Apollo 8's lunar-orbit mission in December 1968,[19] similar conspiracy ideas were already in circulation."
You can see from this the first, the VERY first hoaxter was an AMERICAN, Bill Kaysing, a former Naval officer with ZERO knowledge of anything to do with rockets or space flight, just a technical writer who worked for Rocketdyne.
He just came up with bullshyte in the hopes of selling lots of copies of his books, and that was the origin. NOT RUSSIA. NOT CHINA, NOT COLD WAR MOTIVATED.
Of course you are so deep in the conspiracy you probably don't even know that and would deny an American was so treasonous as to put out such a lie in print. He should have been tried in 1976 when he wrote his bullshyte book. But of course to you he is an outstanding whistle blowing American. God you are so naive.
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21 Nov 16
6 edits
Originally posted by sonhouse
Did you not read my post about my own role in Apollo? You no doubt have to regard me as one of the ones who know it's fake.
No, I do not insist that you were in on the deception if it occurred.
Which I catagorically deny. I was there at Goddard, I saw the incoming signals and the change of tracks from one radio telescope to another, my job was tracking and timing, timing being atomic clocks, Hewlett Packard models to be exact, two of them, one a cesium beam accurate to one second in about 2000 years and the other a Rubidium clock as backup accurate to about 1 second in 200 years and a third backup, a very well engineered crystal clock like we now have in our watches, but accurate only to one second in a couple of years, which is way better than our watches now except for the ones like mine which has a radio to receive the 60 kilohertz time hack signal from Fort Collins Colorado (NIST).
The issue is not did the Space race not yield marvelous inventions.
That is not contended against.
My concern is - Did Neil Armstrong really walk on the moon ?
Is it possible that a hoax could be perpetrated even over engineers watching clocks
and locking up alleged moon rocks in vaults?
I am open to be educated about it.
But the vast sources of the USA of master spies and deception could conceivably have even deceived the majority of NASA engineers.
Anyway the atomic clocks were there to be able to switch from one radio telescope say in Australia to others because the Earth turns it causes one telescope to lose the signals from the moon so you have to have radio telescopes around the planet to be able to switch the signals and that has to happen within 100 NANOSECONDS which is why we need atomic clocks to sync all the switching from one scope to the next. (did you see the movie "Dish"? it was about the first Apollo landing and how their radio telescope was the one receiving the data and TV and audio from Armstrong as he stepped off the ladder, one step, etc., they almost blew it and the telescope was up maybe 5 minutes before that fateful transmission, high winds kept the scope from pointing at the moon till the last few minutes where they had to have the scope working, but it did and history is forever changed as a result.
On my list of curiosities is your movie Dish. But did Armstrong really walk on the moon ? He became pretty much a recluse after coming back. There were very few public interviews.
Neil Armstrong [edited] spoke some cryptic things about it almost suggesting that he knew that one day the protective lid that covers truth would be removed. What did he mean by that comment.
Armstrong was not terribly talkative about the experience as if he was under instructions to keep the talk down to a minimum.
I'll look into your clock issues. But no one is denying that marvelous technological advances have come about because of the Space Race. My suspicion is about the validity of moon walks.
That footprint supposedly on the surface of the moon could be a footprint in some desert movie set on earth.
All the millions of things that had to happen for the flight to be successful was probably 1/10th of the cost of faking it. Besides that, why do you think Russia or China, our avowed enemies ATT didn't call it a fake, a situation that would have resulted in a huge propaganda coup for either of them. It turns out they had radars tracking Apollo also and knew good and well where it went and when it got near Earth again.
Can you link me to credible current photographs of the things left on the moon ?
They have spy telescopes that can read details on earth from way up in space.
It seems there are always excuses why we do not have more distinctly and unmistakable photos of equipment left on the surface of the moon.
But if you know of some photos of things left on the moon which are not fuzzy, refer me to some. They should have the characteristic of unambiguous clarity which could not be "just say so" objects. What I have seen so far is questionable blurs with an authoritative sounding - "That's it. Just believe it."
Hey, how does it feel to be on the explaining end of skepticism ?
So THEY knew it wasn't fake. The ones causing the e trouble are AMERICANS. They have figured a way to make money on fakeness. Follow the money trail and you will find who benefitted financially from this fake fakeness.
That too is true.
Some make money off of planting conspiracy theories and getting millions of hits on the Internet. That is true.
But sometimes the real situation may be somewhere in the middle.
I was told that Yuri Gagaran the Russian was the first man into outer space. Of late some say he was the first Russian in outer space who SURVIVED. Some say they tried nine times or so before. That may mean there are nine corpses maybe floating around up there. Or maybe they died in coming down.
They don't tell us everything.
When you get companies dependent upon one another their is sometimes a motive of mutual cooperation. IE. "I won't blow the whistle on you if you don't blow it on me."
There could be detente for hefty international financial reasons.
But I am completely convinced you will never believe the likes of me who now you consider to be part of the conspiracy.
Don't say that. I might say latter "I formerly believed thus and such. I have now changed my mind."
I may be convinced that we actually walked on the moon. But there are enough unanswered questions here that it is going to require some persuasion.
There was NO SOUND when the astronauts on the International Space Station used noisy power tools to do things. There was the clunking sound of pounding on the moon when an astronaut was pounding something into the ground.
They said, that the air inside of his space suit was picking up the sound.
Everyone knows that there is no SOUND where there is no AIR, on the moon.
Then there was another instance where a SOUND was heard as something was tossed onto the Lunar Lander. The excuse of hearing it from the space suit could not have worked on this instance.
And some say they can account for microphones on the Lunar Lander and know that no microphone could have picked up that sound. But on the film the sound was there.
This is a bit fishy.
How come through the space suit of the astronaut working with a power tool on the ISS was SOUNDLESS ? He had air in his suit. But the air in the suit of the moon walker picked up a sound ?
Something is fishy here.
That is your problem not mine. Yours and all the other people who have been thoroughly duped by the moon fake landing
Maybe I am duped. No need to use bad language.
I don't let emotion overtake clear thinking here.
Some of the rock surroundings seem to be used in more than one place in the moon pictures. The same rocks have been observed to be part of the scene in two different locations.
Now why would the arrangement of the rocks be similar on a lunar desert ?
You would expect that on a movie stage.
Maybe they staged this on a desert on the earth with props and rocks.
And WHERE OH WHERE ARE THE STARS ??
If it is suspected that astronomers could easily spot fakery in the arrangement of stars, it might explain why NO moon walk photos ever show any stars in the black sky.
How come no stars sonhouse ?
asssholes
Calm yourself.
who are in it simply for the money, they are all young people who have an anti-science
So to doubt real moon landings is to be a money grubber necessarily?
So to doubt real moon landings is to be anti-science?
How about people just wanting to know what really happened ?
stance and cannot believe we could have been advanced enough to have ever pulled of a moon landing.
This is not anti advancement. We are more advanced technologically then we were in 1969.
Astronaut Gus Grissom complained that the Lunar Lander was a lemon and that someone was going to die riding in that thing.
Someone has said that NASA could stand for Never A Straight Answer.
Blueprints and techincal details of the moon landings have curiously been lost.
Pointed questions about how TWO men with space suits on could possibly move around in that Lunar Lander, seem to have been poorly answered or evaded at the Space Museum at the Smithsonian by people who are suppose to know.
Design oversights and errors have been pointed out making it very dubious that two men suited up could even get out and into the vehicle have been raised.
I am opened to having these explanations made clear.
I could be persuaded that I am wrong.
One problem is Nixon. He made sure there was never a followup to Apollo, having pronounced a victory in the propaganda war against Russia, having beat them to the moon was all he was after, once that happened he considered it a successful publicity stunt and stopped Apollo in it's tracks.
This argues that winning the propaganda war was the main thing.
We may under estimate what Uncle Sam will do for the sake of National Security and beating out the Soviets in the propaganda war.
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We may under estimate what Uncle Sam will do for the sake of National Security and beating out the Soviets in the propaganda war.
It cost me my job and literally tens of thousands of other people too. The hoaxers came directly out of that miserable time for american science. The manned space program outside of low orbit crap came to a screeching halt and now nearly 50 years later we are in the process of basically redoing the original Saturn V booster that drove people to the moon, upgraded with 50 years newer technology but basically an upgraded Saturn V.
So I hope you are happy with that half century hiatus of the space program, it undoubtedly made you very happy not to see people going where you and others like you think man should never go.
Lame excuses to counter justified skepticism.
I worked at GE in the late seventies. An engineer there told me that those "Moon Days" were the most exciting days. I do not doubt that. And I am happy that multitudes of scientists and engineers had many happy years of research and design and testing.
But are those photos of guys walking and riding on the moon REAL?
Or was that staged on some desert movie set in the American soil out west on some secretive National Security / Science site?
Could a hoax be perpetrated that did not include thousands of engineers in the know?
What did we actually see?
Did we see a big rocket go up? Yes.
The pictures of men doing all kinds of things on the moon are a bit fishy. And they also seem a bit overly optimistic and cheery.
The Lunar Lander vehicle never tested successfully on earth.
Yet it was successful thousands of miles from earth on the moon ?
I don't know about this.
Sorry, I have become a little bit skeptical.
But I could be wrong and maybe we really did walk on the moon.
But " No lie can live forever. "