Intelligent? Design

Originally posted by KellyJay
Being skeptical isn't a crime. I agree with you on this topic, but others don't. Proving a point only strengthens the point towards those that accept it, and may persuade skeptical people.

It still rankles to think people don't accept men walked on the moon. I was there at Goddard. I KNOW what they did. I also held a moon rock in my hand. It was VERY alien looking I can tell you.

Originally posted by sonhouse
It still rankles to think people don't accept men walked on the moon. I was there at Goddard. I KNOW what they did. I also held a moon rock in my hand. It was VERY alien looking I can tell you.

Wow, I envy you that is something rare among our whole race. I'm looking forward to the
time they start to build something on the moon like a inflatable tent for the beginning of
a base of operations. Put something up there that we can see from down here, all of the
arguments are over.

Originally posted by sonhouse... I was there at Goddard. I KNOW what they did. ...

Were you still involved when apollo 13 happened?

The most amazing true story I'm aware of.

Originally posted by 667joe
I wish that those who think the moon landings are a hoax applied the same level of skepticism to the Bible!

What makes you think that they don't? Just because they disagree with your opinion?

Originally posted by apathist
Were you still involved when apollo 13 happened?

The most amazing true story I'm aware of.

It sure was but I got there just after that. It was a heady experience I can tell you. The way they did things back 40 years ago on my job, Apollo tracking and timing, it was mainly analog acoustic ring looping the same digital pattern but one of four loops like that. Of course now it would all be simulated on a cell phone a thousand times faster than anyone could have done it in 1970 but what they did worked, very complex circuitry I can tell you.

The gist of it was they transmitted a unique digital pattern, hell, I forget the bit rate now, must have been a megabit per second though, anyway, it transmitted that pattern to Apollo when it was on it's way.

Then there was a transponder onboard Apollo that received that digital signal and retransmitted it back to Goddard or whatever radio scope was in line of sight, and when the signals got back to Goddard, they were compared bit by bit basically like laying a ruler out side by side.

Think of having a ruler go out into space and loop around and come back to Earth and there the patterns were compared and it turns out that for each and every bit pattern of the signal going out and coming back and compared, there was only one distance the craft could be and that was how they determined exactly (well, within 50 feet, if needed they could have tweeked the signals to get it within 6 inches but that was never needed) So it was basically a tape rule in space hooked up to Earth and the craft so they knew in Z what the distance was at all times.

The timing part of my job was to sync the switching of radio telescopes from one site to another since Earth spins under the craft as it is on its way to the moon or any other kind of probe to the moon, they have to be able to track it 24/7 down to the microsecond and so when switching from one scope to another to maintain line of sight, they had to be sync'd to within 100 nanoseconds, one tenth of a microsecond.

Pretty tricky, eh, especially for the 60's and 70's where laptops were a distant dream. They used off the shelf Hewlett Packard atomic clocks, one cesium beam clock and the other a Rhubidium beam clock, Cesium was accurate to within a second in about 2000 years and Rhubidium about 1/10th of that,'only' accurate to within a second in 200 years. Then there was a tertiary backup, a very advanced quartz crystal clock like in a wrist watch of today but a thousand times more accurate, it was third in line though, Cesium beam, prime, Rhubidium second and crystal third backup.

That equipment was installed in every radio telescope in the deep space tracking network, maybe 10? something like that, around the world to keep all the scopes sync'd when they had to switch.

I was offered a job at Goldstone space tracking center out in the desert of California which I stupidly turned down, but in the station itself I could see (this was a few years later after Nixon screwed us, no more moon trips or cities on the moon) there was new tile laid out where the timing clocks had been and it felt really sad to see it all gone so quickly, they just jerked out all those billions of dollars of equipment and junked it including the Saturn V rocket booster, they literally threw the plans for the Saturn V in a dumpster.

Frigging asssholes. Now they have to rebuilt it all over again, basically the same design, for the Mars trip, bigger better faster and so forth of course, with 40 years of rocket design upgrades but still with Saturn V they could have had some plans to review to do a redesign on but they had to basically start from scratch, and of course something better will be built but it is about 40 frigging years too late.

They could have had men on Mars by 1990 if that ASSSHOLE nixon hadn't nix'd the space program and we went with the stupid Space shuttle. What an unmitigated disaster that was.

Touted to be a lot cheaper than the Saturn V and Atlas rockets, one use jobs and be reusable but instead it ended up costing about ten times as much as they said it would and they never did get the quick turnaround time they touted as the reason for the damned thing in the first place. We all know how well THAT turned out, eh.
So now we are about 30 years behind where we should have been if politics hadn't ruined it, if we could have kept going to the moon there would have been for one thing, this really stupid and treasonous moon landing hoax BS. Oh well, do I sound bitter.....

Originally posted by apathist
Were you still involved when apollo 13 happened?

The most amazing true story I'm aware of.

I was at Goddard when that happened and I can tell you there was a lot of scrambling to find a way to get them home. Those brilliant engineers took steel wool and knitted an oxygen system. A pile of crap on a table, this is what you get, now clean the CO2 out of that air.....

Originally posted by 667joe
This thread appears to have run its course and no one has proven Intelligent design.

And they won't since it was chemistry and water and energy from several sources that started life on Earth and evolution that took over after that. To that, of course, the religious set will pipe in with, well you have to take that on faith.......

Originally posted by 667joe
This thread appears to have run its course and no one has proven Intelligent design.

Proven intelligent design for life, proven? Stupid or non-planned accidental life formation
hasn't been proven either, only suggested as something possible, but highly unlikely.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Proven intelligent design for life, proven? Stupid or non-planned accidental life formation
hasn't been proven either, only suggested as something possible, but highly unlikely.

You don't understand the millions and millions of years of little chemical experiments going on quadrillions of times per second day after day, century after century that went from simple to complex to more complex and then to life. That is not unlikely. It can happen anywhere there is energy and the right kind of matter interacting. They might find life existing in the oceans of Europa, a moon with little sunlight. They most likely will find life or the fossils of life on Mars if and when we ever have humans there.

I think life is not so unlikely as you posit, I think it inevitable on any planet halfway decent for life. I think it will be found the galaxy is teeming with life, maybe not space faring aliens like everyone thinks but maybe lower forms still stuck to their home planets and some where life has gone totally extinct like maybe Mars. And everything in between. This is what I expect to find if I lived to be 1000 or so. Of course that won't happen but someone will be around then and I just hope they are not stuck to just Earth, I hope there is a thriving human civilization spanning light years.

Originally posted by sonhouse
You don't understand the millions and millions of years of little chemical experiments going on quadrillions of times per second day after day, century after century that went from simple to complex to more complex and then to life. That is not unlikely. It can happen anywhere there is energy and the right kind of matter interacting. They might find life ex ...[text shortened]... re not stuck to just Earth, I hope there is a thriving human civilization spanning light years.

Please, millions of millions of years of little chemical experiments and only the good ones
matter right? For life to get a single chemical experiment the setting has to be just right
from the grand to the minute, then all the ingredients have to there in their proper
amounts, and then the timing of all of those chemical changes have to occur in a proper
sequence otherwise we could lose our proper ingredients by something turning into
something that could prohibit or diminish what is necessary ruining the experiment.

You say that as if its no big deal, but what are the odds for each of those individually then
look at what are the odds of all of those things occurring properly as needed? With a
design we are not looking at odds, everything gets put into place and executed at the
right time under the right conditions, while a unplanned event, with nothing at all guiding
each mechanism by the laws of physics and chemistry you get a successful experiment
to produce, maintain, and improve life over time...what luck!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Please, millions of millions of years of little chemical experiments and only the good ones
matter right? For life to get a single chemical experiment the setting has to be just right
from the grand to the minute, then all the ingredients have to there in their proper
amounts, and then the timing of all of those chemical changes have to occur in a prope ...[text shortened]... y you get a successful experiment
to produce, maintain, and improve life over time...what luck!

you think its highly improbable that something complex can exist without design....yet you need to believe in something complex that exists without design in order to do so.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
you think its highly improbable that something complex can exist without design....yet you need to believe in something complex that exists without design in order to do so.

Depends on what we are talking about, in this case it is the planetary population of life.
A few things that had to be proper for life, from universal constants, to the proper
ingredients all being in the right place, in the right quantities, in the right environment, so
they could be joined properly to get what is required. This without anyone, anything, any
plan, or purpose behind it all? If gravity didn't behave, if the sun was to close or far away,
if something in the *water, air, ground, cave, mud" wherever life started prohibited the
proper chain reactions that took non-life to life you get nothing to begin with, let alone
sustain, and the next biggie improve over time.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Depends on what we are talking about, in this case it is the planetary population of life.
A few things that had to be proper for life, from universal constants, to the proper
ingredients all being in the right place, in the right quantities, in the right environment, so
they could be joined properly to get what is required. This without anyone, anything ...[text shortened]... o life you get nothing to begin with, let alone
sustain, and the next biggie improve over time.

you can keep repeating the same old stuff, but the fact still remains...you believe that something complex exists that required no design, while also holding the contradictory view that complexity requires design.