Intelligent? Design

Originally posted by sonhouse
We reap what we sow? You talking about 'original sin'? So a 3 yo child dying a terrible pain ridden death even before it could claim a religion is the direct result of falling out of favor in the garden? You continue to pull the 'now you know the mind of god' card as if that is what I am saying. I don't claim to know the mind of some god, only the results ...[text shortened]... ize all that by pulling the 'original sin' card? That is a rationalization you know, not a fact.

It started with original sin humans were not designed to die at first, but death entered into
our lives after that and it kept getting worse. As I pointed out to you, don't just take the bad
things you have to take it all to grasp the truth of it. You are always going on and on about
what God would or would not do, what God would or would not want yet you cherry pick
the things within scripture or things in this life to make your points.

I've been wanting to stay put on the topic of Intelligent Design yet you are all about telling
me how God thinks and desires, and even with that you cherry pick parts of scripture you
find bad and ignore the rest. Death entered into our world it wasn't supposed to be there,
so God wanting it wasn't there, we brought about our own demise by lusting for
something that was at the time denied us. The rationalization using scripture and what
you see in life then telling me how God is unfair, doesn't care, is hands off is yours too.

So yes, death entered into the human race at the fall of man, and death will be cast into
Hell as the last enemy too and after that we will not be dealing with dying children or
anyone else for that matter. Taking all scripture into account, God not being hands off is
dealing with sin and the human heart, and once evil is revealed for what it is all who are
not clean before God by God's grace will answer for their own actions reaping what they
sowed in this life, for every idle word, deed, and inaction as well.

Originally posted by KellyJay
It started with original sin humans were not designed to die at first, but death entered into
our lives after that and it kept getting worse. As I pointed out to you, don't just take the bad
things you have to take it all to grasp the truth of it. You are always going on and on about
what God would or would not do, what God would or would not want yet yo ...[text shortened]... actions reaping what they
sowed in this life, for every idle word, deed, and inaction as well.

If death wasn't supposed to be there why do we have all those dinosaur fossils from millions, hundred million, years ago? Why do we find fossils of Neandertals 300,000 years old? The myth we were not supposed to die is just that, a myth, one Christians have to believe in, a fundamental for them. The original sin concept is particularly disgusting to me personally, because it feeds right into the fear the scam wants to perpetuate in Christians. Why do you keep pulling the 'now you know the mind of god card? I have said several times I am not looking at the mind of god, only the results. The results say to me either there is no bible god or it is a hands off god. I don't believe either one personally. Humans telling me about god makes me wonder why YOU think you know the mind of god.

Originally posted by sonhouse
If death wasn't supposed to be there why do we have all those dinosaur fossils from millions, hundred million, years ago? Why do we find fossils of Neandertals 300,000 years old? The myth we were not supposed to die is just that, a myth, one Christians have to believe in, a fundamental for them. The original sin concept is particularly disgusting to me pers ...[text shortened]... personally. Humans telling me about god makes me wonder why YOU think you know the mind of god.

I keep pulling the mind of God card because you keep telling me what God desires, wants every time I turn around based on how you think God would behave.

With respect to how long this planet has been here, really doesn't matter to me as much how and why it's here.

I have to go to scripture I do not just make it up as I go with respect to trying attempt to grasp God's will or actions.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I keep pulling the mind of God card because you keep telling me what God desires, wants every time I turn around based on how you think God would behave.

With respect to how long this planet has been here, really doesn't matter to me as much how and why it's here.

I have to go to scripture I do not just make it up as I go with respect to trying attempt to grasp God's will or actions.

I never said anything about what god desires, I said what I see as the result of the hands off god, the children dying horrible pain ridden deaths you attribute to original sin but that is the most disgusting theology I ever heard of. Since your adam and eve failed the test, every subsequent human is forever damned unless they offer themselves to your god. That has a plot hole where an infant dies a horrible pain ridden death before they can ever have the brain development to say whether they believe or not. It just makes zero sense for a god to set things up that way since an omniscient god would know in advance who would pass or fail some theological test.

Yet you refuse to even consider that conundrum. You just fall over and play dead, just reverting to scripture which was written by men not a god.

Originally posted by sonhouse
I never said anything about what god desires, I said what I see as the result of the hands off god, the children dying horrible pain ridden deaths you attribute to original sin but that is the most disgusting theology I ever heard of. Since your adam and eve failed the test, every subsequent human is forever damned unless they offer themselves to your god. ...[text shortened]... ou just fall over and play dead, just reverting to scripture which was written by men not a god.

We live with the actions we do or refuse to do and if some of those actions cause our
race to ridden with all types of horrible deaths than that is what happens. You keep going
back to God knowing therefore certain things are not required as if you know why that
would matter to God. For all you know the way things happen and are allowed to continue
to occur may have nothing to do with God, but the rest of creation!

I don't refuse to consider that or any other conundrum, and I don't claim God wrote the
scripture either, but men did who had engaged with God. I do believe that God is letting
evil has its way up to a point to reveal to everyone what evil is. We joined that side of
the conflict by lusting for something we should have left alone. The end result are all of
the horrible things we see today and many that are yet to come.

As I believe God is hands on I also believe He is going to put an end to this suffering and
the evil we see at His choosing and it will be ended forever. As of right now however we
are living in a world where what we do good and bad has result that everyone around us
will suffer with.

Again, none of these things go to the point of ID.

Originally posted by sonhouse
If death wasn't supposed to be there why do we have all those dinosaur fossils from millions, hundred million, years ago? Why do we find fossils of Neandertals 300,000 years old? The myth we were not supposed to die is just that, a myth, one Christians have to believe in, a fundamental for them. The original sin concept is particularly disgusting to me pers ...[text shortened]... personally. Humans telling me about god makes me wonder why YOU think you know the mind of god.

"I have said several times I am not looking at the mind of god, only the results."

You think that saying you can look at results and then judge God's mindset upon the
results is not knowing the mind of God? When you see something and declare if God
were real these things wouldn't happen suggests you know what God would or wouldn't
do.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"I have said several times I am not looking at the mind of god, only the results."

You think that saying you can look at results and then judge God's mindset upon the
results is not knowing the mind of God? When you see something and declare if God
were real these things wouldn't happen suggests you know what God would or wouldn't
do.

Why dont you try to look at the mind of your god?

Originally posted by OdBod
Why dont you try to look at the mind of your god?

I read what is shared in scripture and prayerfully go to Him. His ways are far beyond ours
as I have pointed out to others, we live in this little sliver of time called now...He isn't
limited to that. That is just one of many points about God being beyond us, do you think
you'd be able to grasp someone's thoughts who sees everything at once in the fullest of
details throughout all time?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I read what is shared in scripture and prayerfully go to Him. His ways are far beyond ours
as I have pointed out to others, we live in this little sliver of time called now...He isn't
limited to that. That is just one of many points about God being beyond us, do you think
you'd be able to grasp someone's thoughts who sees everything at once in the fullest of
details throughout all time?

It's that you know good and well infants die, some horrible pain ridden deaths and that is ok with you, it ain't god's fault apparently, even though your omnisicent god can do anything, so it is saying in effect, it's ok those innocent babies died such horrible deaths. Maybe your god planned it that way. If it is omniscient, it knew about all the upcoming failures of mankind well ahead of time so why wouldn't it just retune humans to behave like it wanted to and avoid unnessessary suffering by infants who cannot worship your god.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I read what is shared in scripture and prayerfully go to Him. His ways are far beyond ours
as I have pointed out to others, we live in this little sliver of time called now...He isn't
limited to that. That is just one of many points about God being beyond us, do you think
you'd be able to grasp someone's thoughts who sees everything at once in the fullest of
details throughout all time?

It would seem then,that you are happy to follow a set of ideas without trying to understand the motive behind them.I wonder how many of the destructive and cruel forces,past and present have relied on that mind set to prosper?

Originally posted by sonhouse
It's that you know good and well infants die, some horrible pain ridden deaths and that is ok with you, it ain't god's fault apparently, even though your omnisicent god can do anything, so it is saying in effect, it's ok those innocent babies died such horrible deaths. Maybe your god planned it that way. If it is omniscient, it knew about all the upcoming f ...[text shortened]... ehave like it wanted to and avoid unnessessary suffering by infants who cannot worship your god.

The death of babies isn't something I'm happy with, I'd thought you knew that!
I don't know why God does the things He does, I'm unaware of a lot things but I have told
you over and over about bad things happening to good people, about good things
happening to righteous and unrighteous. You want to continue to hash all of that out again?

If anyone deserves worship its God who created everything, holds it all together by the
power of His Word and designed the universe and all the laws and rules that govern it.

I see you still don't accept that we are to blame for our sins and want to cast all of the
consequences for our actions upon God. He didn't create puppets, He didn't create a
universe where freewill was limited to only the good and proper choices, nor did He
spare us of from reaping what we sow with our lives.

God planned the universe to support life, He gave that life the ability to love Him and
others. What we do with our abilities is on us and we and our family and friends, young
and old will reap what we sow good and bad. Unnecessary suffering happens and a dad
or mom buys drugs instead of feeding their kids, when someone robs and rapes, when
people do all manner of ill to others. When water and food supplies are damaged or
hoarded, almost all of this is man made or a result of our actions.

The retune of humans is taking place now, it is called being born again with God's Spirit
and you are blind to it, by choice.

Originally posted by OdBod
It would seem then,that you are happy to follow a set of ideas without trying to understand the motive behind them.I wonder how many of the destructive and cruel forces,past and present have relied on that mind set to prosper?

The motives behind what, love God with all my heart, love everyone else as well treating
them as I'd like to be treated? Yea, a lot of destructive and cruel forces past and present
did a lot of damage with those.

We can twist anything to do damage, we have people who profess being prolife choose
to murder, we have public servants getting rich off the position and power they have.
Shoot even the Beatles White album was used to justify murder! The human heart can
twist anything, splitting the atom was a mean one too uh!

Originally posted by KellyJay
The motives behind what, love God with all my heart, love everyone else as well treating
them as I'd like to be treated? Yea, a lot of destructive and cruel forces past and present
did a lot of damage with those.

We can twist anything to do damage, we have people who profess being prolife choose
to murder, we have public servants getting rich off the ...[text shortened]... o justify murder! The human heart can
twist anything, splitting the atom was a mean one too uh!

Problem is,the extremists believe without question that what they do is right too. As I was trying to say,it is not message,it is the fact that the motive behind the message will not be questioned due to blind faith.

Originally posted by OdBod
Problem is,the extremists believe without question that what they do is right too. As I was trying to say,it is not message,it is the fact that the motive behind the message will not be questioned due to blind faith.

That is true of regular folk in and outside religion as well as believers, and extremists. People tend to just live their lives not challenging what they believe, which is close to blind faith in my opinion.

Anyone who is willing to debate isn't running around in blind faith. The ones with their fingers in their ears, hands over their eyes and mouth refusing to put their faith under the fire of debate have a blind faith.

Look at this debate it was supposed to be about ID, that was shutdown for a review of is God good and righteous.

Originally posted by KellyJay
That is true of regular folk in and outside religion as well as believers, and extremists. People tend to just live their lives not challenging what they believe, which is close to blind faith in my opinion.

Anyone who is willing to debate isn't running around in blind faith. The ones with their fingers in their ears, hands over their eyes and mouth refu ...[text shortened]... ate it was supposed to be about ID, that was shutdown for a review of is God good and righteous.

But the sad truth is you are still besotted with JC and the boys to the extent you can't see the holes in the main plot written a few thousand years ago when they knew exactly zilch about the real world and so made up tales to convince a savage population. Well, we are not such savages now and should be able to do that thing that is our birthright, critical thinking, but that is not allowed in Christianity, you take it on faith or begone, become a scientologist or a Hindu but don't bother us about problems with the main christian plot.