03 Dec 05
Originally posted by ColettiOkay.
(1) I think I agree with this in so far as one can agree that two systems are possibly true - or like Euclidean and Hyperbolic Geometry - we can agree with them in practice if not at the same time. But with world-views that are comprehensive it becomes more difficult to agree with both or switch between them without become a bit crazy
(2) I agree with.
...[text shortened]... world-view - they are inductive arguments. The stronger the better, but never absolute proofs.
I need to go off now and take up your challenge, for myself, of identifying my axioms and definitions... and see whetre they lead... 🙂
03 Dec 05
Originally posted by vistesdIt's quite simple; Coletti creates a world view and if anything in the actual world conflicts with his world view it must be wrong. This is hardly a unique idea; lunatic asylums are filled with people who's world view is internally consistent and hence correct according to Colettiesque "logic" if you ignore the minor point that their world view is totally at odds with reality.
Okay.
I need to go off now and take up your challenge, for myself, of identifying my axioms and definitions... and see whetre they lead... 🙂
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by Coletti
It does not matter. If you are presenting two contradictory propositions which you assert are from Scripture - you are wrong. Only one can be true and the other is false. And since that is the case, the Christian goes with the one that does not lead to further internal incoherence.
By definition of God and logic, they can not both be true - to presume otherwise is irrational.
But because both come from Scripture, they both must be true. And yet they cannot
both be true because that would be irrational.
Basically - your assertion that Scripture contains contradiction is irrational, or your view of God is irrational. Or maybe your view of God leads to skepticism or irrational-ism. Either one can not know anything, or God is irrational.
Or holding that Scripture contains no contradictions is irrational. That is, the holding of
the axioms that logic matters and Scripture is not intercontradictory themselves create
contradictions and that one axiom should be discarded.
Nemesio
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderYou just gave a perfect description of your own position in many cases. Remarkable and very interesting .....
It's quite simple; Coletti creates a world view and if anything in the actual world conflicts with his world view it must be wrong. This is hardly a unique idea; lunatic asylums are filled with people who's world view is internally consistent and hence correct according to Colettiesque "logic" if you ignore the minor point that their world view is totally at odds with reality.
04 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderWell, Coletti knows from my rants on the “Salvation” thread that I find his worldview disturbing. I also distrust holistic systems that claim to supply all the answers within one neat framework.
It's quite simple; Coletti creates a world view and if anything in the actual world conflicts with his world view it must be wrong. This is hardly a unique idea; lunatic asylums are filled with people who's world view is internally consistent and hence correct according to Colettiesque "logic" if you ignore the minor point that their world view is totally at odds with reality.
My first axiom is: “The world is everything that is the case.” I stole that from Wittgenstein, and I’m not sure that I mean what he meant—what I mean to do is to exclude the supernatural (strictly defined as something external to the natural order) and secret de-coder rings. As you pointed out, I am probably ineligible to ever get my ring anyway…
EDIT: Spiritually, my first axiom puts me in the monist camp: Advaita Vedanta, Zen, Taoism--though it finds expressions in all the major religious traditions.
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by abejnoodI didn't feel like reading the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been asked, but what were your sources for this information? Particularly the percentages.
We celebrate Christmas in December, but Jesus was born in March.
God created Adam, but calls Jesus his son.
God never said "Let there be sex".
About 3.2% of Christians have actually read the Bible.
About 53% of atheists have read the Bible.
Of the top ten prestigious and respected scholors on religion, 6 of them are atheists.
God promis ...[text shortened]... that everything in Islam, Christianity, and Judism is true, we're all going to hell. (Bummer).
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeNot at all; I'm perfectly willing to explore the factual base of any opinion I hold. I do not, Coletti-style, say that any facts that contradict my world view must, by definition, be wrong. I do ask people who are arguing a contrary position to present facts supporting their position as I do; that's called a "debate".
You just gave a perfect description of your own position in many cases. Remarkable and very interesting .....
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeIsn't the use of the word 'opponents' here inconsistent with the vision of good debating you often lay out in this forum? I mean, if we're to consider the other debators as adversaries, we'd best make ourselves the best Forum Warriors we can, right? Wolves are pretty good fighters...
Homework again for your opponents, Dear Doctor ?
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeI like to think of it more as coaching. He should be thankful I'm willing to take him under my wing. Most people who understand the concepts that he doesn't don't have the patience. I'm trying to make a good Christian Logician out of him, but it will take some work on his part.
Homework again for your opponents, Dear Doctor ?
04 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAh, you're too good for this world, Dear Doctor .....
I like to think of it more as coaching. He should be thankful I'm willing to take him under my wing. Most people who understand the concepts that he doesn't don't have the patience. I'm trying to make a good Christian Logician out of him, but it will take some work on his part.