28 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeDo you believe that atheists and agnostics have no human spirit?
The term "human spirit" can mean two different things depending on how it's used. You appear to be taking the two most common meanings of this term and applying it as though it means same thing. This makes no sense and only adds to the confusion here, so are you talking about how atheists define "the human spirit" or the way Christians define it?
For t ...[text shortened]... he use of this term is perfectly acceptable within the context of a spiritual discussion.
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFOriginally posted by Grampy Bobby "Is the human spirit exclusive to Christians?" (page 3)
When I asked Grampy Bobby about the human spirit, he replied "It's your soul...".
"An immaterial part of God's design format of human beings which is acquired at the moment of salvation along with eternal life; it enables believers in Christ [trichotomous: body, soul and human spirit] to understand and utilize spiritual truth."
"Soul life and physical life are imparted by the Holy Spirit [Neshamah: breath of lives] to a viable fetus [biological life] as it emerges from the mother's womb and takes it's first inhale at the moment of birth soul life and physical life begin]."
Please attribute words with reference to their context accurately. Thank you.
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeI believe that they do. I have been explicit. So does sonship. He has been exllicit. Grampy Bobby appears to think they don't. He has been explicit. Do you agree with sonship or Grampy Bobby? I sense that you agree with sonship.
Uh huh... so instead of responding to my answer you elect to hit the re-set button and start all over again.
28 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyDo you believe that atheists and agnostics have no human spirit? You suggested that they don't. Do you wish to modify what you have said?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby "Is the human spirit exclusive to Christians?" (page 3)
"An immaterial part of God's design format of human beings which is acquired at the moment of salvation along with eternal life; it enables believers in Christ [trichotomous: body, soul and [b]human spirit] to understand and utilize spiritual truth." ...[text shortened]... l life begin]."
Please attribute words with reference to their context accurately. Thank you.[/b]
28 Dec 14
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI'm aware of denominational differences where terms aren't clearly understood, and I'm also aware of denominational differences where there is a clear conflict in belief. It's not clear to me which of these differences (if any) apply to you and sonship, but I suspect it has more to do with definition of terms than anything else. One thing that has always helped me to understand denominational differences is simply knowing what those denominations are.
Please be patient, lemon lime; though I've been wrong on this assessment before the topic interest may be genuine.
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI'm not sure what your assessment of this is, because from where I'm sitting it appears you are the intended target (topic) of this thread.
Please be patient, lemon lime; though I've been wrong on this assessment before the topic interest may be genuine.
I imagine you don't see it this way, and I also don't expect to see FMF admit to indulging himself at your expense. I decided to let him send me on one his fools errands because I was fairly certain I could deliver an answer he couldn't argue with. But where do we go from here?
I mean really, I can't imagine this thread going on for another 30 pages with the same question being repeated over and over again, regardless of what anyone says... but my assessment of this could also be wrong. 😉
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeIs the notion that not all human beings have human spirit a valid Christian doctrine? It's a new one to me. Have you encountred it before?
I'm not sure what your assessment of this is, because from where I'm sitting it appears you are the intended target (topic) of this thread.
I imagine you don't see it this way, and I also don't expect to see FMF admit to indulging himself at your expense. I decided to let him send me on one his fools errands because I was fairly certain I could deliver ...[text shortened]... over again, regardless of what anyone says... but my assessment of this could also be wrong. 😉
28 Dec 14
1 edit
I believe that human spirit is an attribute of all human beings and not something acquired by people when they become Christians. To suggest that non-Christians lack this basic human attribute sounds fanatical and perhaps a text book case of dehumanization.
If Grampy Bobby has inadvertently used a word or words incorrectly, he should just come out and say so.
28 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFOriginally posted by lemon lime
Is the notion that not all human beings have human spirit a valid Christian doctrine? It's a new one to me. Have you encountred it before?
The term "human spirit" can mean two different things depending on how it's used. You appear to be taking the two most common meanings of this term and applying it as though it means same thing. This makes no sense and only adds to the confusion here, so are you talking about how atheists define "the human spirit" or the way Christians define it?
For the sake of simplicity I believe this could be resolved by simply saying "soul" rather than "the human spirit". This would pretty much put an end to your contention over GBs use of the term "human spirit", even though the use of this term is perfectly acceptable within the context of a spiritual discussion.
Originally posted by FMF
But the idea of the "soul" is common to a whole range of religions and philosophies. Followers of the Abrahamic religions typically believe that all human beings have "souls". On the other thread, are you seriously claiming that Christian doctrine says that "agnostics or atheists" along with people who don't believe in Christ, have no "soul" and no "human spirit"?
Originally posted by lemon lime
You equated "human spirit" with "soul".
Is it still your contention that any Christian would deny that atheists (or any non-Christian) have a soul? This is what you were specifically suggesting, so would you care to modify or make any changes in your argument before we proceed?
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeWhen I was a Christian I believed that every human being had a "soul". If you are right and we can replace "human spirit" with "soul" in what Grampy Bobby said, and so he is thus saying that human beings get their "souls" only if they become Christians, then this is the first time I have heard anyone claim this is Christian doctrine. Do you agree with it?
Originally posted by moi
[b]The term "human spirit" can mean two different things depending on how it's used. You appear to be taking the two most common meanings of this term and applying it as though it means same thing. This makes no sense and only adds to the confusion here, so are you talking about how atheists define "the human spirit" or th ...[text shortened]... se of this term is perfectly acceptable within the context of a spiritual discussion.[/b]
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFYou're the only one here who is saying anything about people not having a soul unless they become a Christian, but you asked if I agree with this and so my answer is no... I don't agree with you.
When I was a Christian I believed that every human being had a "soul". If you are right and we can replace "human spirit" with "soul" in what Grampy Bobby said, and so he is thus saying that human beings get their "souls" only if they become Christians, then this is the first time I have heard anyone claim this is Christian doctrine. Do you agree with it?
28 Dec 14
Originally posted by lemon limeGrampy Bobby has claimed that the human spirit/soul is acquired when one becomes a Christian and that atheists and agnostics don't have human spirit/souls. You either agree with him on that, or you agree with the conventional Christian view which is that all human beings, regardless if whether they are Christians, have human spirit/souls.
You're the only one here who is saying anything about people not having a soul unless they become a Christian, but you asked if I agree with this and so my answer is no... I don't agree with you.