01 Mar 22
@pb1022 saidThe symbolism is pretty plain. Why is there suffering and toil? Why is life so miserable? Answer: because someone sinned. Pain and suffering and toil and death are punishment for some primordial crime. But there’s an out: if the chosen people keep their part of a bargain (a covenant), then God will ensure them plenty of food, victory in battle, and that their descendants will continue to reverence their names. That’s the Jewish programme as laid out symbolically in the OT. There was no garden; there was no tree; there was no Adam or Eve. It’s an allegory ‘explaining’ not HOW the world came to be, but WHY the Jews are continually being ‘tested.’
Just because part of the Holy Bible is symbolic doesn’t mean all of it’s symbolic.
I don’t think anyone believes Jesus Christ meant for people to pluck out their eyes and cut off their arms if their eyes and arms offended them.
People who want to make the creation account in Genesis symbolic should explain the symbolism. Otherwise, it’s just an intellectually-lazy throwaway line.
01 Mar 22
@moonbus saidHmmmmm.
The symbolism is pretty plain. Why is there suffering and toil? Why is life so miserable? Answer: because someone sinned. Pain and suffering and toil and death are punishment for some primordial crime. But there’s an out: if the chosen people keep their part of a bargain (a covenant), then God will ensure them plenty of food, victory in battle, and that their descendants will ...[text shortened]... allegory ‘explaining’ not HOW the world came to be, but WHY the Jews are continually being ‘tested.’
Interesting premise.
01 Mar 22
@suzianne saidOther bits of the OT are probably based on real events. There could very likely have been a real King David and a real King Solomon and a real Moses. There are Jews in Ethiopia even today who may be the descendants of the original population, only some of whom Moses led out of Egypt, as told in Exodus. The lists of names (who begat whom) are clearly 'reverencing the ancestors', who may really have lived. There is little doubt that the Jews met some other folk already living in the Levant when they arrived out of Egypt. All this is characteristic of the genre of "antiquities", as noted in one of my posts above, a genre known in the ancient world not only from the OT.
Hmmmmm.
Interesting premise.
A bit of fact mixed up with a lot of legend and symbolism. For example, there is little doubt that the Jews suffered a period of exile in Babylon and later returned to the Levant; that is why Leviticus was written. The Jews at that time slaughtered live animals on stone altars and, unlike the rest of the ancient world's pagan religions, the Jews believed that only the altar at Jerusalem was 'pure'. So the animal sacrifices had been suspended during the Babylonian exile. Upon returning to the Levant, the butcher priests (the family of Levi) realized that a generation of Jews had grown up in exile never having performed the rite; so, the Levi family codified what they knew from before the exile and wrote it down for the benefit of the next generation who would re-instate the rites once they got back to the Levant. Which ear to anoint first and all the rest of the details pertaining to the various rites are all laid out in Leviticus. There is real historical truth in this, but it pertains only to the Jews who were returning to the Levant after the exile in Babylonia. It was never intended to apply to all mankind for all eternity. It's really barbaric stuff, you know. The priest is to drench himself in the hot blood of the animal while it dies.
01 Mar 22
@josephw
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."[i/]
Literally the creation of time, space and matter from out of nothing. Literal, not metaphorical.
Create - bārā' - God literally brought into existence from nothing all that exists.
[i]".., so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." Hebrews 11:3b
Nothing evolutionary here. What was made(created) was not made of what is seen.
Literal sun, moon and stars. Literal man and woman. Literal animals and plant life. Literal trees. Literal garden.
No one can prove otherwise.
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01 Mar 22
@josephw saidHave you got your fingers tight enough in your ears while you’re shouting “la la la la I can’t hear you….” .
@josephw
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."[i/]
Literally the creation of time, space and matter from out of nothing. Literal, not metaphorical.
Create - bārā' - God literally brought into existence from nothing all that exists.
[i]".., so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." Hebrews 11:3b
Nothing ev ...[text shortened]... woman. Literal animals and plant life. Literal trees. Literal garden.
No one can prove otherwise.
01 Mar 22
@divegeester said"Have you got your fingers tight enough in your ears while you’re shouting “la la la la I can’t hear you….” ."
My religious book says that flying multiheaded dragons existed or will exist in the future ….and no one can prove otherwise.
Do you have a reference for "flying multiheaded dragons"?
@divegeester saidNothing of substance to contribute to my post?
Have you got your fingers tight enough in your ears while you’re shouting “la la la la I can’t hear you….” .
01 Mar 22
@sonship saidThe first 9 chapters describe in quite gory detail what is to be done. Just do the math. A cow typically has 36 to 39 liters of blood in it, a bullock somewhat more (it's bigger). A goat typically has about 6 liters, and a lamb about the same (a human, by comparison typically has about 8 liters). All of these animals were to be slaughtered and their blood sprinkled about the altar. Then the carcasses were to be skinned, the fat and innards removed from the hide, and various bits burnt (for a sin offering, a trespass offering, a peace offerings, etc. etc.). Quite a messy operation, with close to 50 liters of blood spurting out. Ever see a butcher's apron after a day's work?
@moonbusIt's really barbaric stuff, you know. The priest is to drench himself in the hot blood of the animal while it dies.
Where is that in Leviticus ?
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01 Mar 22
@moonbus saidYou think Adam and Eve were Jews?
The symbolism is pretty plain. Why is there suffering and toil? Why is life so miserable? Answer: because someone sinned. Pain and suffering and toil and death are punishment for some primordial crime. But there’s an out: if the chosen people keep their part of a bargain (a covenant), then God will ensure them plenty of food, victory in battle, and that their descendants will ...[text shortened]... allegory ‘explaining’ not HOW the world came to be, but WHY the Jews are continually being ‘tested.’
Didn’t you think the same thing about Noah?
Jews are descendants of Abraham who was born well after Adam, Eve and Noah.