05 Jan 12
Originally posted by mikelomNever came across the expression "'trinity' of wonderous beings " in the Bible so I dont know what that means.
The Bible does not contradict itself, DOES IT?
...Jesus even confirms this in all that he says and teaches (Mk 12:29-30). ...
We cannot conclude from this that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are independent Gods, because the Bible ... "I am in the Father and the Father is in me" (John 14:11)
I don't believe for one iota of a second that a Father ...[text shortened]... er child..... but isn't all of this a part of the 'trinity' of wonderous beings?
-m. 😉
I did see this ..
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
I did see that Christ call his Father .. GOD.
I did see that God called his son .. SON.
I have no intention of adding on doctrines created by Christendom which are not clear in the Bible. That's the start of apostasy.
05 Jan 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Again this type of reasoning demonstrates a particular tactic of the trinitarian, that of
taking a single verse, out of the context of the Bible, in its entirety and attempting to
assign values based upon a religious bias. What is the essential truth in this verse
Jaywill,
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God",
spoken by Jesus Christ.
Again this type of reasoning demonstrates a particular tactic of the trinitarian, that of taking a single verse, out of the context of the Bible, in its entirety and attempting to assign values based upon a religious bias. What is the essential truth in this verse
There is no sneaky "tactic" in a simple straight forward comparison between David confessing that Jehovah was his God and his Lord AND Thomas confessing that the resurrected Jesus was his Lord and his God.
There is nothing sneaky about it. And dismissing all disagreement with Arian and Russellite Christology as "bias" is emblematic of your own prejudiced bias.
Want to see "bias" Robbie ? Look in the mirror.
I have to go.
05 Jan 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillthe verse Jaywill, forget about me, forget about the watchtower, forget about Russell,Again this type of reasoning demonstrates a particular tactic of the trinitarian, that of taking a single verse, out of the context of the Bible, in its entirety and attempting to assign values based upon a religious bias. What is the essential truth in this verse
There is no sneaky "tactic" in a simple straight forward comparison betw n prejudiced bias.
Want to see "bias" Robbie ? Look in the mirror.
I have to go.
what about the verse Jaywill, what essential truth is contained in the verse, you have
not said.
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God",
05 Jan 12
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999Didn't you see where God calls His Son, "O God"?
Never came across the expression "'trinity' of wonderous beings " in the Bible so I dont know what that means.
I did see this ..
1 Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and [b]the head of Christ is God.
I did see that Christ call his Father .. GOD.
I di ...[text shortened]... ines created by Christendom which are not clear in the Bible. That's the start of apostasy.[/b]
Didn't you see where the Holy Spirit is called God?
Didn't you see where God says, "Let US make man in OUR image"
and were the Holy Bible says man was created in the image of God?
Didn't you see where it is written there is only one God?
Didn't you see where Jesus tells His disciples to go baptize in the NAME
of the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT.
(Notice He says the NAME and not NAMES)
The term "TRINITY" puts all the above ideas together and presents
these THREE - FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT as ONE GOD.
05 Jan 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThats very nice. But I rather not use an expression which does not exist in the Bible.
Didn't you see where God calls His Son, "O God"?
Didn't you see where the Holy Spirit is called God?
Didn't you see where God says, "Let US make man in OUR image"
and were the Holy Bible says man was created in the image of God?
Didn't you see where it is written there is only one God?
Didn't you see where Jesus tells His disciples to go baptize in the ...[text shortened]... e ideas together and presents
these THREE - FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT as ONE GOD.
05 Jan 12
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsAnother trinitarian biased translation of a term meaning 'the nature of God', so lame,
How about "Godhead" then"?
For all the fullness of the Godhead dwelt in Christ bodily.
so underhand, so trinitarian. Please tell us the Greek term that you have translated as
'Godhead', and why you have translated it as such.
06 Jan 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm sure you notice that when RJH can't answer he changes the subject or ask another question. I truly wish he would back up for once and look at the facts, the very clear facts of the Bible and see that the trinity """"cannot work"""" with the context of the Bible.
Another trinitarian biased translation of a term meaning 'the nature of God', so lame,
so underhand, so trinitarian. Please tell us the Greek term that you have translated as
'Godhead', and why you have translated it as such.
A simple one is Jesus calls his father, Father.
The Father calls Jesus his son.
The holy spirit is never called anything like that.
06 Jan 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI did no translating. Blame the King James translators if you wish, not me.
Another trinitarian biased translation of a term meaning 'the nature of God', so lame,
so underhand, so trinitarian. Please tell us the Greek term that you have translated as
'Godhead', and why you have translated it as such.
06 Jan 12
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the verse Jaywill, forget about me, forget about the watchtower, forget about Russell,
what about the verse Jaywill, what essential truth is contained in the verse, you have
not said.
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God",
I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God",
The passage in no way makes it not true that Jesus is the Lord and God of Thomas His disciple.
It is not that we Christians believe something extra in the Father-Son-Holy Spirit. It is that you polytheists do not believe enough.
I have not embraced something larger than what the Bible says. You have not embraced enough of what it says.
06 Jan 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThat's right.
Didn't you see where God calls His Son, "O God"?
Didn't you see where the Holy Spirit is called God?
Didn't you see where God says, "Let US make man in OUR image"
and were the Holy Bible says man was created in the image of God?
Didn't you see where it is written there is only one God?
Didn't you see where Jesus tells His disciples to go baptize in the ...[text shortened]... e ideas together and presents
these THREE - FATHER, SON, and HOLY SPIRIT as ONE GOD.
06 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillyou are basing your arguments based on an english version of the bible translated by trinitarians.
[quote] because its an inference, one can easily state that Thomas is referring to two distinct
entities, one can even state that he is not addressing Christ al all, he is merely
exclaiming, as people do now, 'Oh my God', does that mean when people see
something extraordinary and exclaim, 'oh my God', that the person they are
addressing really is God ...[text shortened]... WHAT ? Believed that Jesus Christ is also our Lord and our God in resurrection.
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Jn20_28.html
06 Jan 12
2 edits
I wrote in a post that it was an ESSENTIAL truth of Scripture that the Father is the Source and the Son is the Expression and the Holy Spirit is the Transmission of this life of God into man.
It was criticized as being extra. This is supposedly something "more" than what the Lord Jesus taught. This is something too deep and not from the teaching of Christ. Well, let us see if this is true by directly examining the words of Jesus before His crucifixion and resurrection:
"But when He, the Spirit of reality, comes, He will guide you into all the reality; for He will not speak from Himself, but what He hears He will speak; and He will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will declare it to you.
All that the Father has is Mine; for this [reason] I have said that He receives of Mine and will declare it to you." (John 16:13-15)
Look at the teaching directly from the mouth of the Lord Jesus.
ALL THAT THE FATHER HAS IT MINE; FOR THIS REASON I HAVE SAID THAT HE RECEIVES OF MINE AND WILL DECLARE IT TO YOU."
The Father is the Source.
The Son is the Expression.
The Holy Spirit will declare, will transfer, will impart and dispense all these riches expressed in the Son which were of the Father, TO the disciples.
Here the TRIUNE GOD is completely energized to carry out His economy from the Father, through the Son, by the transmission of the Holy Spirit into the disciples.
I don't believe realizing the operation of the Trinity in this way is "something more". This revelation is the teaching of the Lord Jesus proper.
06 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillExactly why do you need to say that the Father is the source and the Son is the expression? Does that make your faith stronger, superior, clearer, more accurate ?? I dont understand. Please explain in very simple language why you need to add so much to the Bible.
I wrote in a post that it was an ESSENTIAL truth of Scripture that the Father is the Source and the Son is the Expression and the Holy Spirit is the Transmission of this life of God into man.
It was criticized as being extra. This is supposedly something "more" than what the Lord Jesus taught. This is something too deep and not from the teaching of Chri ...[text shortened]... this way is "something more". This revelation is the teaching of the Lord Jesus proper.
Anyway I read John 16 and the only impression I got was the God and Christ are two distinct and separate entities.