07 Jan 12
2 edits
Cont.
ME:
"But of the Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ..." (Hebrews 1:8)
This utterance is not inserted into the text of the New Testament 300 years latter by trinitarian theologians. This text was a QUOTATION of the Old Testament prophetic utterance concerning a Son of God.
PSALM 45:6,7 - "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; The scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;, Therefore God, Your God. has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions."
VoidSpirit:
the term for god in the hebrew here is "elohim" which is a word also used to describe moses, or persons appointed by god to divine status. the psalm even continues to make that point. the psalm describes a human king and the throne of god referenced is the dynasty of david.
No references were given.
Where is it that Moses is described as God ??
Maybe the poster has this in mind:
When Moses complains that he is not elequent in speech God tells him that Aaron will speak his words which God will give to Moses:
"And you shall speak to him and put the words in his mouth, and I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and will teach you what you shall do.
And he [Aaron] shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be as a nouth for you, and you shall be as God to him." (Exodus 4:14,15)
Since VoidSpirit gives no reference, I assume perhaps this is the passage he means.
The implication then is that Christ is no more really God incarnate than Moses was. God said that Moses would be "as God to him" [Aaron] . Therefore, VoidSpirit would have us believe that all the Bible means is the Jesus Christ the Son of God is just another Moses like figure. Both, are discribed as God.
I reject using Exodus 4:16 as a reason to disbelieve that Christ is God incarnate. Sure, in representative authority, Moses would be "as God" to Aaron. But according to the very example I used in Romans 8:9-11 - Christ is an interchangeable term with the Spirit of Christ and "the Spirit of God" and "the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead" .
Christ is therefore God, the indwelling divine Life - the Spirit of God, the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead.
These arguments suggesting Moses and Jesus Christ are exactly the same - only being AS GOD to someone/s are the arguments of those with unbelief and no experience of having God come into them to indwell them.
The comparison of Moses to Jesus is not altogether wrong. There is some substancial merit to saying that Jesus is like Moses. But Moses is not said to be the Word who was God become flesh.
And the appearance of Moses and Elijah on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17 forever set seal to the fact that Moses is inferior to the Son of God in glory, nature, splendour, divinity, and authority:
"And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, conversing with Him [Jesus].
And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Lord it is good for us to be here; if You are willing, I will make three tents here, one for You and one for Moses and one for Elijah.
While he was still speaking, behold,, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. Hear Him!
The divine Majesty made forever clear that men would not to place Moses and Elijah on the same level as the Son of God. The Son is God become a man. This is more than God making Moses "as God" to Aaron and Phariah.
Ironically Hebrews 3:1-6 stresses the superiority of Christ to Moses. And the preceeding reasoning TO this section contains the quotation of the Son of God being addressed as God (Heb. 1:8).
fits pretty well with the NT narrative where jesus makes no secret that he is anointed by god with divine authority until his mission is accomplished.
The incarnation of God as a man does in no way contradict that the Anointed One of God, the Christ, the Anointed and Messiah was specially appointed and anointed by God for the accomplishment of God's plan.
Being Anointed does not mean the following is not true -
" ... God in Christ was reconciling the world to Himself" (2 Cor. 5:19a) .
you know, this can go on for a long time tit for tat, but any trinitarian theory is instantly annulled by a singe verse that places christ as subservient to god.
No it is not. It only goes to show that Christ in God / Man.
We Christians who have received Christ realize that the Christ who indwells us is simultaneously the Spirit of God and the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead.
You need to have experience of the indwelling Christ before you presume to educate us Christian disciples about the Father - Son - Holy Spirit, Three-One God.
and the bible is replete with such verses. it can only be concluded that trinitarians are in a position of folly attempting to redefine christ into something he is not.
Christ is God-man. And the Bible is replete with verses showing BOTH sides of this Wonderful One. We choose as Christians to believe them ALL.
07 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillDon't forget that when Christ was speaking of the destruction of thethe teaching of the bible is that christ is always subservient to the father.
Quote me where I ever said that Christ was not subservient to the father.
I expect a QUOTATION as an reply. Where did I say Christ is not subservient to the Father ?
Then again the [b]son ... given is to be called Eternal Father in ...[text shortened]... actly the same - on...[/b]
temple of His body He said, "I will raise it up again after three days."
He must have been speaking from His divinity in this case for He says,
"I will raise it up..." and not "My Father will raise it up..."
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
07 Jan 12
Originally posted by RJHindsOK so to the dying man I described, you would say we are all in need of a Savior from this second death. Is there anything else you would say, that is most essential?
It is a good point to get across to anyone and the fact that we are all in
need of a Savior from this second death.
07 Jan 12
Originally posted by jaywillyour belief in the trinity is testament to your belief that christ is the equal of the father.
[b]the teaching of the bible is that christ is always subservient to the father.
Quote me where I ever said that Christ was not subservient to the father.
I expect a QUOTATION as an reply. Where did I say Christ is not subservient to the Father ?
Then again the son ... given is to be called Eternal Father in Isaiah's prophecy. The entermingling, co-mingling, and co-inherance of the Father and the Son reinforces that in Christ God became man.
Thank God those of us with experience can see through your blindness.
your vanity is your failure. jesus does not fulfill isaiah's prophecy. since you gave no reference, i assume you mean isaiah 9:6-
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
but in the very next verse we have:
Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
there was no increase in his government, no throne of david has been established, there is no reining peace or justice for ever, no zeal of the lord of hosts has performed any of that.
there is no possible way isaiah could be talking about jesus.
Experiencially, the believers cannot detect any separation between Father and Son as they live in the realm of the Triune God.
you speak only of the trinitarian believers. there are many christians who do not believe falsely as you do, they correctly do not find any trace of a "trinity" in the bible.
Paul speaks to the Roman Christians of the indwelling One who within them gives the divine life. They can detect no separation between the varied titles Paulo uses for God:
yet strangely enough, paul doesn't once mention a trinity.
And the way Paul interchangeably uses the titles reveals that the one indwelling Divine Person is mysteriously multi-une.
The Spirit of God dwells in the believers (v.9) - "... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you"
The Spirit of God who dwells in them is ALSO the Spirit of Christ Who dwells in them (v.9) - "Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him."
The Spirit of Christ is then suddenly revealed as CHRIST HIMSELF (v.10) - "But if Christ is in you ..."
your confusion is unwarranted. paul clears all by making an important distinction and in the process, nullifies the trinity theory:
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Who is the One who raised Jesus from the dead folks ? Certainly one one hand it was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead .
you've made the wrong assumption that the spirit of god and the spirit of christ are interchangeable. they are two separate beings and this becomes obvious when placed in the context of the rest of romans.
according to the passages described by paul, one can have the spirit of god within them without having the spirit of christ, and thus that person would not belong to god. which is in accordance with the NT narrative; which requires christ to get to the father.
What does Roman 8:9-11 tells us ? It tells us that these titles of the Divine Person are used in one breath and interchangeably for the One God who dwells within the believers in Christ:
"The Spirit of God" = "The Spirit of Christ" = "Christ" = "the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead".
only if you're trying to fit your trinity doctrine in the text where no trinity doctrine exists.
Unless the skeptic can prove that FOUR individual Persons dwell in the believers, he must accept that Paul is using FOUR titles interchangeably to describe One God.
The indwelling Christ is the indwelling Spirit of God.
The indwelling Spirit of Christ is Christ Himself.
The indwelling Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead is also Christ.
The indwelling Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead is the Spirit of Christ.
you forgot about the "helper" that's another distinct spirit that can dwell in you.
you also forgot about legion. lot's of spirits can dwell in a human body according to the NT narrative.
paul is talking about 2 spirits. the spirit of god who raised jesus (who is god, not a separate person). and the spirit of jesus (who is appointed by god with divine power until his mission is complete 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 ).
This is the indwelling Triune God. And this letter of Paul exactly corresponds to Christ's promise -
"Jesus answered and said to him, if anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to Him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
there is no triune god idea in that verse. that verse is in accordance with the NT narrative where jesus is appointed by god to have supreme authority (temporarily) and shares the same goals as god.
reading further, i see no verses you have quoted that support the trinity. i don't have the time or energy to break it apart verse by verse. all you have done is reaffirm the standard NT narrative;
-jesus is son of god and a separate being from the father.
-god planned on jesus from the very beginning.
-jesus and god share the same goals, they are of the same mind.
-jesus is appointed with divine power and divine authority until he successfully completes his mission.
-his mission is to defeat all his enemies and his final enemy is death.
-once his mission is over all divine authority will be returned to god.
-jesus is subservient to god
-due to his divine powers, jesus is godlike (like moses was).
that is nothing at all about a trinity in the NT narrative. to think that such an important concept is not mentioned even a single time reigns in the realm of absurdity.
07 Jan 12
Originally posted by VoidSpiritYou must be a Jew, for you think just like one. A blind one. 😏
your belief in the trinity is testament to your belief that christ is the equal of the father.
[quote] Then again the [b]son ... given is to be called Eternal Father in Isaiah's prophecy. The entermingling, co-mingling, and co-inherance of the Father and the Son reinforces that in Christ God became man.
Thank God those of us with ...[text shortened]... not mentioned even a single time reigns in the realm of absurdity.[/b]
07 Jan 12
Originally posted by RJHinds
Don't forget that when Christ was speaking of the destruction of the
temple of His body He said, "I will raise it up again after three days."
He must have been speaking from His divinity in this case for He says,
"I will raise it up..." and not "My Father will raise it up..."
Don't forget that when Christ was speaking of the destruction of the
temple of His body He said, "I will raise it up again after three days."
He must have been speaking from His divinity in this case for He says,
"I will raise it up..." and not "My Father will raise it up..."
I agree with you.
It is a matter of not "filtering out" passages that do not fit our natural preconception. Rather every and all passages concerning the revelation should be taken together.
I think a word used in theology to discribe this all-inclusive acceptance of every aspect of the Bible together is "plenary".
07 Jan 12
4 edits
VoidSpirit still looks for "problems".
your belief in the trinity is testament to your belief that christ is the equal of the father.
My belief seeks to embrace ALL utterances of Jesus. That would include not only ones in which He reveals He is the deputy submission to the a Father, but also where He actually taught that the Son is to be regarded with equal honor as the Father.
"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives [them] life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wills.
So neither does the Father judge anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son even as they honor the Father.
He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him." (John 5:21-23)
My faith also includes Christ teaching that He lives in the Father and the Father lives in Him:
"Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father and it is sufficient for us.
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long a time with you, and you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how is it that you say, Show us the Father ?
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? ..." (John 14:8-10a)
Philip requested to see the Father. Jesus responds with surprise . " . . . you have not known ME Philip?"
In the Triune God we have the greatest display of perfect unity in diversity in the universe. We have a harmony and organic union which is so ultimate it far exceeds human language and human imagination.
We well can imagine Jesus telling Philip - "Philip, I've been with you for three years now and you do not know ME yet ?? Don't you remember Isaiah's prophecy. Don't you recall that the son given shall be called Eternal Father ?"
jaywill:
Then again the son ... given is to be called Eternal Father in Isaiah's prophecy. The entermingling, co-mingling, and co-inherance of the Father and the Son reinforces that in Christ God became man.
Thank God those of us with experience can see through your blindness.
ViodSpirit:
your vanity is your failure. jesus does not fulfill isaiah's prophecy. since you gave no reference, i assume you mean isaiah 9:6-
I will not take the time to address each matter of your unbelief. Needless to say that Jesus is not the Mighty God born as a child, or that Jesus is not the Wonderful One who is the incarnation of the Father, is the dark unbelief of man.
You are simply wrong. And if Christ is in the ongoing PROCESS of enacting ALL of the details of the prophecy, that does not mean He is not the fulillment of it.
He is certainly right on track. And no detail will eventually fail to materialize in Him. I simply dismiss your unbelief.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
but in the very next verse we have:
Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
there was no increase in his government, no throne of david has been established, there is no reining peace or justice for ever, no zeal of the lord of hosts has performed any of that.
That you, VoidSpirit, refuse to submit to the Lord Jesus is not proof that His government has failed.
Secondly, that Israel is still not in recognition of her Messiah, is not proof that the prophecy is failed.
God sent Moses to deliver the children of Israel out from the iron furnace of Pharoah's Egypt. They were discouraged because Pharoah did not immediately listen to Moses. Ten grueling plagues latter Pharoah relented.
In the mean time the oppressed Jews were discouraged and sought to ignore Moses. Latter they wanted to stone him. All this gradual outworking did NOT make God's promise not true.
And neither is the predicted and prophesied slowness of Israel to embrace her true Messiah in Jesus, a sign that the government portions of Isaiah's prophecy are false.
Shame on you. We know God has His schedule and that the Son is right on track.
there is no possible way isaiah could be talking about jesus.
This is your poor unbelief speaking.
If you don't call Him the Mighty God it doesn't mean that He is not called the Mighty God.
If you do not submit to His loving redemption for your salvation, it does not mean that His government is not encreasing in the hearts of millions who do receive Him.
jaywill:
Experiencially, the believers cannot detect any separation between Father and Son as they live in the realm of the Triune God.
VS:
you speak only of the trinitarian believers. there are many christians who do not believe falsely as you do, they correctly do not find any trace of a "trinity" in the bible.
Correction: I speak of the Christians at Rome to whom the letter was written. And without doubt they are representative of the rest of us Christians.
That they were or were not labelled as "trinitarians" is totally beside the point. They were believers and dispensed into them was:
"The Spirit of God" who was "the Spirit of Christ" who was the "Christ" who was "the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead."
Of course Paul did not address the letter to "all the trinitarians in Rome".
The FACT is there quite undependent upon theological vocabulary. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were dispened into the Christians.
jaywill:
Paul speaks to the Roman Christians of the indwelling One who within them gives the divine life. They can detect no separation between the varied titles Paulo uses for God:
VS:
yet strangely enough, paul doesn't once mention a trinity.
So what ?
I have repeated to you that basically "trinity" means that God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Paul did not have to address each letter - "To the trinitarians in Rome" or "to the trinitarians in Corinth".
Your criticism is stupid. The fact of Christ's teaching and Paul's echoing that God was Father-Son-Holy Spirit is all that needs to be demonstrated.
You may call that revelation "trinity". You may call it "squinity". You may call it "Gumba" for all we care. It doesn't matter that much.
God as revealed in the Bible is Father - Son - Holy Spirit. That is what is important. It is not important the a Bible Concordance comes up with no passages which mention "trinity".
Having said that which I think seems not to be able to penetrate some thick heads, we have no shame to refer to "trinity" or the "Triune God".
Why should I be ashamed or shy away from a passing mention the Triune God. This God is for experience and enjoyment. That is the main thing.
jaywill:
And the way Paul interchangeably uses the titles reveals that the one indwelling Divine Person is mysteriously multi-une.
The Spirit of God dwells in the believers (v.9) - "... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you"
The Spirit of God who dwells in them is ALSO the Spirit of Christ Who dwells in them (v.9) - "Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him."
The Spirit of Christ is then suddenly revealed as CHRIST HIMSELF (v.10) - "But if Christ is in you ..."
VS:
your confusion is unwarranted. paul clears all by making an important distinction and in the process, nullifies the trinity theory:
Sure Paul makes a distinction.
Paul makes no separation. That is why he uses the phrases interchangeably.
May God have mercy on you to bring you into some experience of Christ.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
jqywill:
Who is the One who raised Jesus from the dead folks ? Certainly one one hand it was the Father who raised Jesus from the dead .
VS:
you've made the wrong assumption that the spirit of god and the spirit of christ are interchangeable. they are two separate beings and this becomes obvious when placed in the context of the rest of romans.
No they are not TWO SEPARATE BEINGS.
It is OBVIOUS that Paul is talking about the same Person:
" ... if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet is anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you ..."
Paul is not teaching that three SEPARATE Spirits are indwelling the believers:
1. The Spirit of God
2. Plus another Spirit - the Spirit of Christ
3. Plus another Person - Christ
No indeed. He is using the titles interchangeably. And since "the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) it is consistent that Jesus Christ is available to enter into man by being in His pneumatic form as the life giving Spirit.
This Spirit of Christ indwelling the believers is CHRIST indwelling the believers -
"Now the Lord is the Spirit" (2 Cor. 3:17) .
Furthermore RJHinds nicely pointed out that not only does the New Testament say that the Father raised Jesus from the dead, but it also says that Jesus raise up Himself from the dead -
"Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. ... But He spoke of the temple of His body. " (John 2:19,20)
And again Jesus said that HE Himself h...
07 Jan 12
Cont.
Furthermore RJHinds nicely pointed out that not only does the New Testament say that the Father raised Jesus from the dead, but it also says that Jesus raise up Himself from the dead -
"Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. ... But He spoke of the temple of His body. " (John 2:19,20)
And again Jesus said that HE Himself had the authority to both lay down His life and to take it up again:
"No one takes it [His life] away from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have the authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it again. This commandment I received from My Father." (John 10:18-20)
SO ... the Spirit of Christ indwelling us Christians is equal to the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead, in this regard also.
Of course the NT also says that Jesus was raised through the glory of the Father. This is the Triune God. This is the unrivaled unity and the greatest synthesis in the universe. The greatest harmony and diversity in organic oneness.
This is our Wonderful Triune God. It would be splendid if a man opened up to receive the indwelling of Christ, the life giving Spirit.
according to the passages described by paul, one can have the spirit of god within them without having the spirit of christ, and thus that person would not belong to god. which is in accordance with the NT narrative; which requires christ to get to the father.
What IS is what is important. Your hypothetical is a flight into your own off the track and irrelevancy.
What IS in the passage? It is that the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Christ. He indwelling the Roman Christians. It is that the Spirit of Christ is Christ Himself. He indwells the Roman Christians.
It is that the Christ is the INDWELLING Lord within the disciples on one hand and is at the right hand of God interceding for them on the other. Compare Roman 8:9-11 with 8:34.
Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ, you cannot separate the Spirit of God from the Spirit of Christ.
Christ is God as well as the Man Savior. So to have the Spirit of God today is to have the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
jaywill:
What does Roman 8:9-11 tells us ? It tells us that these titles of the Divine Person are used in one breath and interchangeably for the One God who dwells within the believers in Christ:
"The Spirit of God" = "The Spirit of Christ" = "Christ" = "the Spirit of the One Who raised Jesus from the dead".
VS:
only if you're trying to fit your trinity doctrine in the text where no trinity doctrine exists.
There is not need to "fit". One only needs to QUOTE and examine carefully.
That's good enough for this post.
But if something more direct is needed Second Corinthians 3:17 - "NOW THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT. And where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom."
WHO was Paul speaking of in Second Corinthians when he wrote of "the Lord" ? He himself tells us in the next chapter:
"For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord" (2 Cor. 4:5)
So Christ Jesus the Lord must be the One Paul refers to where he writes "Now the Lord is the Spirit".
Distinction but no separation.
07 Jan 12
3 edits
Originally posted by VoidSpiritVoidSpirit has more -
your belief in the trinity is testament to your belief that christ is the equal of the father.
[quote] Then again the [b]son ... given is to be called Eternal Father in Isaiah's prophecy. The entermingling, co-mingling, and co-inherance of the Father and the Son reinforces that in Christ God became man.
Thank God those of us with not mentioned even a single time reigns in the realm of absurdity.[/b]
you forgot about the "helper" that's another distinct spirit that can dwell in you.
I neither forget about the Helper or that He is distinct from the Father and the Son.
He cannot, however, be thought of as separate.
And I hope you are not trying to claim that the Another Comforter and the Paraclete and the Spirit of reality and the Holy Spirit and the Helper are refering to five different Spirits.
Those are just various names for the Holy Spirit.
-+
you also forgot about legion. lot's of spirits can dwell in a human body according to the NT narrative.
The legions of demons in the demoniac is not to be compared with the Holy Spirit indwelling the Christians with varied titles:
The Helper, the Another Comforter, the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit, etc.
No VoidSpirit. That is not similar to the demoniac having a legion of demons in his body.
paul is talking about 2 spirits. the spirit of god who raised jesus (who is god, not a separate person). and the spirit of jesus (who is appointed by god with divine power until his mission is complete 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 ).
So you criticize Christians for speaking of " Trinity " when you yourself have a Father - Son - Spirit of God AND Spirit of Christ.
So you think it should be The Father, the Son, the Spirit and the other Spirit, a FOURSOME ?
07 Jan 12
1 edit
paul is talking about 2 spirits. the spirit of god who raised jesus (who is god, not a separate person). and the spirit of jesus (who is appointed by god with divine power until his mission is complete 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 ).
Interesting that you should grab this passage.
The teaching is that Christ is in a gradual PROCESS of bringing all of God's enemies under His feet. UNTIL He accomplishes this He is the appointed King.
But before you expressed your unbelief in Isaiah 9:6 because you do not yet see Israel as a nation subject to Jesus willingly or some of His enemies yet totally subdued.
So now I suppose you admit that the Christ COULD be in a successive and gradual process of establishing His administrative authority.
By the way. For the Son to deliver up the kingdom to the Father that God may be all and all apparently has NOTHING to do with Christ no longer being King.
His kingdom is forever and ever as even Hebrews 1 told us - "But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom." ( Heb 1:8)
1. ) The Son's throne is "forever and ever"
2.) It does not say that the Son's throne is terminated after 1,000 years.
3.) The Son is called God.
4.) While He is bringing His administration to more and more corners of the creation He is STILL the promised Divine King. That A PERCENTAGE of it is not yet accomplished does not mean He has not fulfilled His office as prophesied.
07 Jan 12
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt is wonderful that you should repeat a few times this passage which I love. Do so as many times as you like.
“I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God",
Jesus Christ.
Is there something of a point about it that relates here ?
Did I not address something you asked pertaining to Christ's ascension to His Father ?
Notice that though Christ ascends to the Father we cannot really say that He was ever without the Father:
"And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him" (John 8:29)
Yes. On one hand the resurrected Son ascends back to the Father.
But on the other hand, the Father who sent the Son never left the Son.