10 Mar 05
Originally posted by Darfius33 years is not infinitesimal? Even if the universe is only 7000 years old (snicker), 33 years is but a drop in the ocean. And Christ was not the only one who was crucified in those days, Darfius. Many people have been tortured and killed in many horrible ways in the history of man. To say Christ suffered in death more than anyone who ever lived is just plain stupid.
I'm Republican.
He lived 33 years. That's not really infinitesimal. And I honestly cannot think of a person who suffered a more horrible death.
And He suffers everytime you or anyone else rejects Him when His handiwork is all around you.
10 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusEeek! I just accidentally rec'd your post, I meant to hit reply & quote, but I was distracted! Oh the irony 😞
I'm Republican.
He lived 33 years. That's not really infinitesimal. And I honestly cannot think of a person who suffered a more horrible death.
And He suffers everytime you or anyone else rejects Him when His handiwork is all around you.
Anyway, what i was going to say was that I know of plenty of cases where peopl have suffered more painful, torturous and extended deaths. If you really think cruxifiction was that bad, you should check out the history of the Spanish Inquisition, or the British punishment sytem in the Middle Ages, or even the torture camps in WW2. Many millions of people have died in worse ways than Jesus did.
11 Mar 05
Jesus was mocked publically in front of His own people. He was chosen to be killed over a murderering psychotic. He was flogged with whips with embedded glass until near death. He was forced to carry a heavy wooden beam over his destroyed back. He was nailed through the median nerve (and subsequently rubbed it everytime He moved on the cross) and suffocated.
Name me someone who had it worse than that. And I meant it's not infinitesmal compared to our individual lives, darv. He's suffered as much as anyone to show His love for us. He's not the distant gods of other religions.
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusIn short, he was mocked, whipped and crucified.
Jesus was mocked publically in front of His own people. He was chosen to be killed over a murderering psychotic. He was flogged with whips with embedded glass until near death. He was forced to carry a heavy wooden beam over his destroyed back. He was nailed through the median nerve (and subsequently rubbed it everytime He moved on the cross) and suffoca ...[text shortened]... fered as much as anyone to show His love for us. He's not the distant gods of other religions.
Crucifixions had been taken place for centuries before Christ. The main cause of death by crucifixion is suffocation, so I don't see how his could have been more painful than any other. At least, I don't see how one can say with confidence that it was. You're just biased cause Jesus is your main squeeze and you love him.
You should be thankful they didn't turn him upside down like they did to some who were crucified.
Being boiled alive, buried alive, burned alive and/or placed in the Iron Maiden are all pretty painful too. I mean, crucifixion painful. But it's all immaterial - Pain is relative and it reaches a threshold.
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by darvlayAll other crucifixions had victims TIED to the cross, not nailed through the median nerve. Do a quick google search on the median nerve, darv.
In short, he was mocked, whipped and crucified.
Crucifixions had been taken place for centuries before Christ. The main cause of death by crucifixion is suffocation, so I don't see how his could have been more painful than any other. At least, I don't see how one can say with confidence that it was. You're just biased cause Jesus is your main sque ...[text shortened]... n, crucifixion painful. But it's all immaterial - Pain is relative and it reaches a threshold.
Speaking of upside down crucifixions, that's what Peter REQUESTED when he was sentenced to die for his beliefs and preaching. He felt he wasn't worthy to die like his Lord and Savior.
Boiled alive? Sounds like what John had to go through. Again, for preaching boldly and proudly that Jesus was God incarnate.
And guess what, he made it out alive and kept on preaching.
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by lilnicky123As usual, I listened to the Christian radio station on my way home from work today. The local radio guy was doing a phone interview of Lee Strobel. As some here may know, Strobel is perhaps the most vocal Christian apologist in America.
is there a god?
Strobel was an atheist at one time. His wife converted to Christianity. Strobel says he looked at the evidence for atheism and Christianity very closely, and decided that the evidence for the latter won hands-down.
The host asked Strobel if he could be converted back to atheism if someone were to present him with good enough evidence for it. Strobel's answer was about like this: "If there was some sort of evidence for atheism that was really strong, and somehow it had slipped by me back in those days when I was searching, then I would find it interesting, but it would not make me cease to be a Christian. Imagine someone presenting me with evidence that my wife does not exist. I would listen to the evidence, but there is no way that I would be convinced, because I see her every day and I know she exists. Likewise, I became born-again twenty years ago, and ever since then I have had a personal relationship with Christ. There is nothing that could convince me he's not for real."
I found it interesting that Strobel's last words on the program were used to request that people pray for him because he is going to have surgery for a knee injury tomorrow. Is his self-professed relationship with God so shaky that he cannot get God to ensure the success of the surgery with a prayer of his own, directly to God? Why does he have to recruit other believers to join him in asking God for that?
For that matter, there are Christians who believe in faith healing. Evidently Strobel is not one of them. Otherwise, Strobel would ask God for supernatural healing of his knee. Such healing would be 100 percent effective, versus 90 percent effective or thereabouts for surgery, and it would not cost Strobel's insurance company any money. Talk about a win-win alternative!
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusPardon me Darf, but I understood that you folk decided that Jesus was the 'son of God' and therefore what do you mean God suffered pain and death for you?
I am incapable of joking about a God who entered this world and suffered excruciating (word made for the pain he endured) pain and death for love of me. Just want to explain why I rarely do here.
Yours in confusion.
Henry
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by DarfiusJust so I don't remain ignorant, could you please tell me the chapter and verse in your Bible where it says he was nailed through the median nerve and he rubbed his nerve everytime he moved.
Jesus was mocked publically in front of His own people. He was chosen to be killed over a murderering psychotic. He was flogged with whips with embedded glass until near death. He was forced to carry a heavy wooden beam over his destroyed back. He was nailed through the median nerve (and subsequently rubbed it everytime He moved on the cross) and suffoca ...[text shortened]... fered as much as anyone to show His love for us. He's not the distant gods of other religions.
Much obliged
Henry
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by Paul DiracWe as Christians are supposed to believe without a shadow of a doubt that God can do what we request. Peter, who lived with God, had doubt when walking on water to Jesus and started to fall in. How can I pray for something when I am used to the laws of physics which I adhere to everyday? However, a combination of strong in faith (but not psychotic) is enough to do anything in the name of God through Jesus Christ.
As usual, I listened to the Christian radio station on my way home from work today. The local radio guy was doing a phone interview of Lee Strobel. As some here may know, Strobel is perhaps the most vocal Christian apologist in America.
Strobel was an atheist at one time. His wife converted to Christianity. Strobel says he looked at the evidence for at ...[text shortened]... and it would not cost Strobel's insurance company any money. Talk about a win-win alternative!
Why don't you try what Strobel did? Ask God into your life. If He complies to your sincere request, accept Jesus Christ as Lord of your life. It's simple enough.
11 Mar 05
Originally posted by MaustrauserJesus is both the Son of God and God incarnate. It's both the difficult and simple concept that is the Trinity. One God, three forms.
Pardon me Darf, but I understood that you folk decided that Jesus was the 'son of God' and therefore what do you mean God suffered pain and death for you?
Yours in confusion.
Henry