Originally posted by whodeyBy the way, Where was the FATHER, when JESUS was in the earth??
Jesus never claimed to be the Father. In fact, he taught his followers to pray to the Father in his name. So the question begs, if he has elevated himself to the level of the Father and made a distinction between he and the Father what is being said? No matter if you think Christ is part of the Trinity or some other deity you must concede one thing and tha ...[text shortened]... hat the Bible teaches about the Trinity even though it may not refer to the word Trinity.
From the same Book of John, Please go through this :
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Here Philip asks to show them the FATHER, and look at Jesus telling, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? Now my friend, according to your BIBLE, dont you think Jesus is the FATHER, or isn't He claiming to be the FATHER? Or may be the BIBLE is a book full of Mistakes! This was quoted from your Insipired book - King James Red Letter!
Now look at this verse :
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Your Jesus says, HE is IN the FATHER & the FATHER IN HIM! The FATHER GOD dwelleth in Jesus!
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Again in COL 2:9 in your Bible, it says, "The fullness of the GODHEAD bodily dwelleth in JESUS"
So this clearly means that the TRINITY is in JESUS.
And you say that there are 3 persons in the GODHEAD, so according to the verses, this will conclude that each person in TRINITY has its OWN 3 PERSONs in TRINITY!! So totally 9 Persons in the GODHEAD!!!
Originally posted by ahosyneySo in one part it says that Jesus & Father are ONE, in another part both are different! Which one is correct?? Can some one comment plz!
But later Jesus said that he and the father are different:
(king James Version)(John)
(Jn-5-31)[b](If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.)
(Jn-5-32)(There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.)
(Jn-5-33)(Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.)
( ...[text shortened]... er and Jesus can't be the same person from what Jesus said himself.
Do you have any comment?[/b]
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOhhhhhh Plzzzzzzzzz!!! Here again...
even more than that my friend, the scriptures indicate that he never ever considered himself to be equal with Almighty God
'Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, [b]gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.'
Philippians 2:5-7[/b]
Someone a few posts before told that Jesus made HIMSELF equal to GOD & was about to be stoned & then crucified!!
Now here our friend "robbie" claims that he never ever considered himself to be equal with Almighty God. If so why was HE crucified?
Originally posted by joelgeorgeThere are two possibilities:
So in one part it says that Jesus & Father are ONE, in another part both are different! Which one is correct?? Can some one comment plz!
1- That this is a contradiction and the book is not from GOD. And this option will not be accepted from our Christian friends.
2- That in one of the two places Jesus didn't really mean what you understand.
Read them again and pick one!!!
Originally posted by ahosyneyAmazing Options!!! I better would go for 2 coz I want an answer to this thread : Is TRINITY Biblical??? Does TRINITY exsist in Godhead???
There are two possibilities:
1- That this is a contradiction and the book is not from GOD. And this option will not be accepted from our Christian friends.
2- That in one of the two places Jesus didn't really mean what you understand.
Read them again and pick one!!!
Originally posted by joelgeorgeIf so why was HE crucified?
Ohhhhhh Plzzzzzzzzz!!! Here again...
Someone a few posts before told that Jesus made HIMSELF equal to GOD & was about to be stoned & then crucified!!
Now here our friend "robbie" claims that [b]he never ever considered himself to be equal with Almighty God. If so why was HE crucified?[/b]
According to the Bible he was crucified because the Jews religious leaders were afraid about the effect of Jesus Message between their followers which will affect their position both politically , and financially. So they used false witnesses to claim that Jesus equate himself to GOD and changing the law, so that they can execute him.
Originally posted by joelgeorgeI think the word picture of Christ being the "Word" incarnate in the first chapter of John best explains what I am talking about here. When Jesus says that I do not speak of myself but of my Father, I think what he was saying was that the source of the words may not have been Jesus, rather, the words had simply come alive in their midst in the form of Jesus!! It was God speaking but from a distance.
By the way, Where was the FATHER, when JESUS was in the earth??
From the same Book of John, Please go through this :
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Here Philip asks to show them the F person in TRINITY has its OWN 3 PERSONs in TRINITY!! So totally 9 Persons in the GODHEAD!!!
Originally posted by joelgeorgeYou should take a poll of how many theists here even believe god is made of any substance. The dualists would probably say he's outside our physical universe and thus not made of any substance therein.
Welcome.. Whats your opinion about the components??
As long as someone proves that Soul, Body & Spirit is made of same matter, TRINITY stays ILLOGICAL!!!
If TRINITY claims that all the 3 persons in the GODHEAD are co-equal, co-eternal, co-existent & made of the same substance; then, please answer the following with respect to the example mentioned ...[text shortened]... you call the same EQUALITY between the Members?
Dont you guys think its Partiality?? 🙁
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Originally posted by joelgeorgeThe temporal reasoning is pretty simple. Jesus, in a fit of rage, storms into the temple in Jerusalem and goes Cristian Bale on the place. This upsets the priesthood of the temple. They have him killed.
.... If so why was HE crucified?
And anyone who wants to portray this scenario is being anti-Semitic is irrational. Jews killing Jews is not anti-Semitism.
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There is one God and one personage manifested in different offices. To believe in 3 separate persons is an idea based in paganism. Who do you pray to? Which one? It is paganism. Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible nor is "the eternal son".
Jesus said "The son shall hand over all things to the father" i.e the office of son-ship shall be done away with. It is written in the OT, "Hear o Israel the Lord your God is one God" and "I am the Lord and I change not". Jesus is the revelation of Gods salvation, the "right arm" that was laid bare in Isaiah, the veil of flesh that was torn to provide access to the holy one.
Jesus is associated with creation, salvation and glory. Bodily he began in Bethlehem but in essence he is the Father "i and the father are one" it is so obvious yet it is a mystery - "the mystery of god in Christ" reconciling himself to the world. The spiritual revelation of WHO Jesus is, is what Peter was talking about when Jesus said to him "blessed are you Peter because flesh and blood has not revealed this to you". Jesus asked him who do you say that I am? Jesus said also "before Abraham was I am".
Isaiah said "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace." His name, the name is Jesus.
Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him.
Jesus commanded his disciples "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". (Note the use of name in the singular). Yet nowhere in the NT testament, is this formula used. Every baptism was carried out in "the name of Jesus" quite simply because that name is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and indeed "there is no other name given under heaven by which men can be saved".
Originally posted by divegeesterInterensting! Anyone to comment? My friend, divegeester has spoken from the Bible!!!
There is one God and one personage manifested in different offices. To believe in 3 separate persons is an idea based in paganism. Who do you pray to? Which one? It is paganism. Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible nor is "the eternal son".
Jesus said "The son shall hand over all things to the father" i.e the office of son-ship shall be do ...[text shortened]... "there is no other name given under heaven by which men can be saved".