23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidWhy is this? Is it because you believe have you have the "temperament" of a woman and should therefore not lead, should be submissive, keep quiet etc.?
I would also note: I am not allowed or enabled to teach, lead men, have authority, etc.
23 Sep 19
But in all honesty, FMF, I am not that interested in going into forum drama. I should perhaps not be asking you to go further.
I ask because I want you to know that it is unappreciated and to feel some sort of shame in making these pronouncements about other users.
You certainly don't have to answer and this is not an invitation for you to persist in your folly, but an attempt to get you to give up future name-calling.
We can leave it at that.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI don't think you have made a case why people in positions of authority in your church have to be men.
, very few are allowed to do this, and those who take it are not 'authorities' so much as they are teachers and healers of the parishioners. They are like fathers to the Church, and thus called father.
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidOK, why not?
I don't think you have made a case why people in positions of authority in your church have to be men.
Do you think that St. Paul's words are wrong? Sure, you aren't a Christian. You have implied you think this might have been some kind of Roman operation before, and you do not believe in our God.
However, in the context of Christianity, why would it be wrong to believe that the Priesthood is reserved for men?
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI think the intention of Christ is clear. Followers of Christ are supposed to be brothers in Christ. There ideally should be no authority in the church except God. Paul can do whatever he pleases, that can not change what Jesus said.. Jesus is the authority, not Paul. However I would challenge you to show me where Paul called himself 'Fatier'
This is covered very well through another website:
This controversy springs from the way some Christians have interpreted Our Lord's words in Matthew 23:9, "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." It's important to remember that the apostle Paul seems to not believe this was Christ's intent. In addition to the Epistl ...[text shortened]... ore God.
http://ww1.antiochian.org/node/19193
Many things in the Bible are nuanced. ^^
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidIf you don't think you come across as a beta male, we can leave it at that. If you were an alpha male, which you presumably think you are, your feathers would not have been ruffled by me asking what I did. It's just my impression from stuff you have posted, how you have behaved, what you have said about your life ~ and now the way you have bristled ~ it's just my view, that's all. Don't worry about it.
But in all honesty, FMF, I am not that interested in going into forum drama. I should perhaps not be asking you to go further.
I ask because I want you to know that it is unappreciated and to feel some sort of shame in making these pronouncements about other users.
You certainly don't have to answer and this is not an invitation for you to persist in your folly, but an attempt to get you to give up future name-calling.
We can leave it at that.
23 Sep 19
@philokalia saidI don't hold it against him that he was a man of his times and wrote down his personal opinions about the world around him as he saw fit.
Do you think that St. Paul's words are wrong?
23 Sep 19
@philokalia said"In the context of Christianity", you can believe whatever you want.
However, in the context of Christianity, why would it be wrong to believe that the Priesthood is reserved for men?
23 Sep 19
@philokalia said'Being submissive' and 'keeping quiet' is language I have taken from the Bible, from the Bible verse we are referring to. It's "insulting" is it?
LOL, more of this attitude, eh? OK.
Please, enough of the insulting language. It's distracting and just leads to forum drama.
23 Sep 19
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@philokalia saidI will keep an eye on what "pronouncements about other users" you make and whether you "feel some sort of shame" when you do, and I will perhaps remind you of your hypocritical disapproval of it if [when it seems appropriate to do so].
I ask because I want you to know that it is unappreciated and to feel some sort of shame in making these pronouncements about other users.
23 Sep 19
@rajk999 saidI thought this part was poignant:
I think the intention of Christ is clear. Followers of Christ are supposed to be brothers in Christ. There ideally should be no authority in the church except God. Paul can do whatever he pleases, that can not change what Jesus said.. Jesus is the authority, not Paul. However I would challenge you to show me where Paul called himself 'Fatier'
Now, let's also remember that in Matthew 23, Christ also says "do not be called teacher". Yet, elsewhere in the Gospels, Our Lord himself uses this title for others, such as Nicodemus.
It indicates that the concept deals with ultimate reality.
None are father but God in an ultimate sense. None are teachers but God, in an ultimate sense.
Yet, in conventional senses, there are church fathers, and there are spiritual fathers. There are also literal fathers.
Christ also says in Matthew 15:
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
Clearly, God recognizes conventionalities.
Indeed, this is how marriage is sometimes explained as a conventionality so that we do not burn with passion as Christians. I have also heard that slavery and the Law in general were made for this end.
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidLOL, OK. It's one of those "you cannot show that you care that I insult you from a distance, or you confirm that the insult is true!"
If you don't think you come across as a beta male, we can leave it at that. If you were an alpha male, which you presumably think you are, your feathers would not have been ruffled by me asking what I did. It's just my impression from stuff you have posted, how you have behaved, what you have said about your life ~ and now the way you have bristled ~ it's just my view, that's all. Don't worry about it.
Very sophisticated move. ^^
You win this round, FMF!
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidIt's a good use of time, surely.
I will keep an eye on what "pronouncements about other users" you make and whether you "feel some sort of shame" when you do, and I will perhaps you remind of your hypocritical disapproval of it if and when it seems appropriate to do so.
Please do.
Everyone's ego must be kept in check.
23 Sep 19
@fmf saidAw, LOL, but you had written this:
'Being submissive' and 'keeping quiet' is language I have taken from the Bible, from the Bible verse we are referring to. It's "insulting" is it?
Is it because you believe have you have the "temperament" of a woman and should therefore not lead, should be submissive, keep quiet etc.?
Implying that I think of myself as a woman, which I am not.
You seem to have forgotten your own insults.
While you think I am some kind of "beta" because I have acknowledged these insults, I would suggest that you resorting to insults indicates that you are upset or feel you have lost the debate.
You resort to insults when you have lost the debate.