Jesus saves VS. works

Originally posted by KellyJay
“Remember that everything in the Bible has ‘proof’ that is true and genuine.”

I’m not at all sure what you mean here! Are you saying that if it is in the Bible that it is true
and genuine, or in the life we live we will see genuine proof for what is in the Bible? We
are saved by grace through faith, it does not say we are saved by grace through genuine ...[text shortened]... s something you want to avoid at
all costs, but it feels that way sometimes when I talk to you.

I really do not understand what is your point regarding being born of the spirit.

According to this:

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

Christ is saying that those who are born of the Spirit is similar to the wind. You CANNOT TELL where it comes from or where it is going. As far as I can tell all Christians are fleshly beings. When Christ returns ONLY THEN will Christ regenerate them into Spiritual beings IF Christ judges them to be RIGHTEOUS and worthy of eternal life... like He says here:

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. (Mat 19:28-29)

Originally posted by Rajk999
I really do not understand what is your point regarding being born of the spirit.

According to this:

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (John 3:8)

Christ is saying that those who are born of the Spirit ...[text shortened]... ame's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. (Mat 19:28-29)[/i]

The topic Jesus was speaking about at that time was when He was on His throne, Peter
asked about what will they have after they have left everything to follow Jesus, and Jesus'
reply was about this question.

27 Then Peter said in reply, “Look, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?”

The topic we have been talking about is here now before we end up in front of Jesus on
that day. Truly you are right, on that day the race will be over and things will be different
forever the corruptible will be incorruptible.

Read what you quoted too, "...ye which have followed me, in the regeneration..." these
are those which have followed Jesus, they are going to receive rewards along with their
inheriting everlasting life. The truth is we need to be following Christ, without Him we can
do nothing that will last eternally.

Christians are fleshly beings, and not just Christians everyone is! As fleshly beings we have
that nature that can only be changed by God. This is why it is said we must be born again!
This is why the scripture in so many places say we need the Spirit of God NOW in our
lives to follow Him, to learn from Him.

Christ needs to be living in us NOW this is all part of the same process, that ends when
on the time you are talking about. We follow God's Spirit now, God's Spirit should now be
in us, Christ should be in us now. Leaving God out of our lives now is doing just that, not
following Him as He commanded.

Galatians 2:
19 ... I have been crucified with Christ; 20 and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.

I will say this, as hard as life can be, having God in my life has changed everything. He
has taken my family through some of the worst things possible. I know I'm not worthy of
God's grace though I strive to be, but I trust in His grace and mercy and will rely on that
alone not my efforts. I strive to follow Him, and rest in what He has done for me.

Originally posted by KellyJay
The topic Jesus was speaking about at that time was when He was on His throne, Peter
asked about what will they have after they have left everything to follow Jesus, and Jesus'
reply was about this question.

27 Then Peter said in reply, “Look, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?”

The topic we have been talking about is ...[text shortened]... rely on that
alone not my efforts. I strive to follow Him, and rest in what He has done for me.

You have gone completely off the topic. The question is:

In your opinion what does it mean to be 'BORN OF THE SPIRIT' and are Christians automatically born of the spirit when they accept Jesus

Originally posted by Rajk999
You have gone completely off the topic. The question is:

[b]In your opinion what does it mean to be 'BORN OF THE SPIRIT' and are Christians automatically born of the spirit when they accept Jesus[/b]

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Galatians 4:6
And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

Yes, when you ask Jesus into your heart making Him your Lord that is when it begins.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Romans 8:15
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Galatians 4:6
And because you are children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

Yes, when you ask Jesus into your heart making Him your Lord that is when it begins.

OK .. that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit...

So are you flesh or spirit?

Originally posted by Rajk999
OK .. that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit...

So are you flesh or spirit?

How does this escape someone who knows the Lord?

Originally posted by Rajk999
OK .. that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit...

So are you flesh or spirit?

I've been born again by Jesus Christ, who I now belong to. What are you someone born
only of flesh, or does the Spirit of God live in you?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've been born again by Jesus Christ, who I now belong to. What are you someone born
only of flesh, or does the Spirit of God live in you?

You misunderstand the Bible.

If you are born of the Spirit you are a spirit, and you are not of the flesh... but I suspect you are still flesh and blood.

You claim that you sin so therefore YOU ARE OF THE FLESH. because that which is born of the Spirit CANNOT SIN....THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT BORN OF THE SPIRIT .. NOT YET

Nobody is born of the Spirit, neither is anyone regenerated YET. It is only when Christ returns ONLY THEN will there be a process or regeneration and all those who follow him will be born of the Spirit and will enter the Kingdom of God.

NOBODY has entered Gods Kingdom YET and NOBODY has eternal life YET despite peoples claims. All Christians have a PROMISE of eternal life and live in HOPE.

Paul never said that he was born of the spirit, neither did he ever said that he has eternal life or regenerated. Paul lived in hope of eternal life and Paul has a crown of righteousness waiting for him ON THAT DAY WHEN CHRIST RETURNS .. and all those who wait for Christ will get the same.

NOT BEFORE.

The Spirit of Christ that Christians have now is the teachings and commandments of Christ:

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
(Joh 6:63)

Christ words are spirit and are life ..hence it is critical to follow Christ otherwise there is no eternal llife.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You misunderstand the Bible.

If you are born of the Spirit you are a spirit, and you are not of the flesh... but I suspect you are still flesh and blood.

You claim that you sin so therefore YOU ARE OF THE FLESH. because that which is born of the Spirit CANNOT SIN....THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT BORN OF THE SPIRIT .. NOT YET

Nobody is born of the Spirit, ...[text shortened]... spirit and are life ..hence it is critical to follow Christ otherwise there is no eternal llife.

Didn't deny I was flesh and blood, I did tell you I accepted Christ into my life, and I mean
that quite literately. Being born again is something we do here, now, walking with God
with the Holy Spirit is something we do here now.

You been shown the scripture, but you laugh them off. Are we going to change on the
day Jesus judges, yes absolutely. We are to follow Jesus, and walk like He did while He
was here, and He defeated Satan as a man following God, being lead by the Spirit of God.

Paul, Peter, and others pointed out several times we walk in Christ, Christ in us our hope
of glory. You really do wish to reject God in your life and instead want to setup your own
righteousness by works? Here are a few scriptures, I could go on with more, but if you do
as your history suggests, you will find some reason to ignore them.

Romans 8:9
But you are not in the flesh; you are in the Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Acts 2:38
Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:4
so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:10-11
But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also through his Spirit that dwells in you.

2 Corinthians 5:17
So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!

2 Corinthians 12:9
but he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.’ So, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless, indeed, you fail to pass the test!

Galatians 2:20
and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:27
As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Galatians 4:19
My little children, for whom I am again in the pain of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

Ephesians 3:17
and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, as you are being rooted and grounded in love.

Philippians 1:20
It is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be put to shame in any way, but that by my speaking with all boldness, Christ will be exalted now as always in my body, whether by life or by death.

Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh—

Originally posted by Rajk999
You misunderstand the Bible.

If you are born of the Spirit you are a spirit, and you are not of the flesh... but I suspect you are still flesh and blood.

You claim that you sin so therefore YOU ARE OF THE FLESH. because that which is born of the Spirit CANNOT SIN....THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT BORN OF THE SPIRIT .. NOT YET

Nobody is born of the Spirit, ...[text shortened]... spirit and are life ..hence it is critical to follow Christ otherwise there is no eternal llife.

Walking in the Spirit is what we are to do here and now, and in doing that we have to keep
in mind we are walking out our life till the end that way. Paul stressed that He does not
count himself as one who had arrived, but he pushed through to the end and that should
be our mindset as well. God gives us His Holy Spirit so we can do the works He has for
us. Being born again is NOT the end of our walk, but the beginning!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Walking in the Spirit is what we are to do here and now, and in doing that we have to keep
in mind we are walking out our life till the end that way. Paul stressed that He does not
count himself as one who had arrived, but he pushed through to the end and that should
be our mindset as well. God gives us His Holy Spirit so we can do the works He has for
us. Being born again is NOT the end of our walk, but the beginning!

I show you scriptures and you ignore mine. .. So we are done now. You believe what you like.

Christ himself said that you cannot be both flesh and blood and be spirit. Born of the Spirit means a complete change to another being.

You are confusing two things:
1. having the Holy Spirit of God in a fleshly being OR having Holy Spirit gifts from God
2. being born of the Spirit

1 may happen when one is baptised into Christ and have put on Christ.

2 happens when Christ returns and changes His people from fleshly beings into spirit beings.. Now every Christian is a fleshly being .. flesh and blood, mortal, corruptible and sinful. Christ will change all that ONLY AT HIS RETURN.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (1Co 15:51-54)

Originally posted by Rajk999
I show you scriptures and you ignore mine. .. So we are done now. You believe what you like.

Christ himself said that you cannot be both flesh and blood and be spirit. Born of the Spirit means a complete change to another being.

You are confusing two things:
1. having the Holy Spirit of God in a fleshly being OR having Holy Spirit gifts from God
2 ...[text shortened]... brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. (1Co 15:51-54)[/i]

I address the scripture you show me, but tell me what do you think of these? Seriously
Christ in us, the Spirit in us, it is all there and I didn't put them all up just a small handful.

None of the scriptures I posted agree with your point of view, take them and lets go over
them one by one, I will gladly do the same with each one you present.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I address the scripture you show me, but tell me what do you think of these? Seriously
Christ in us, the Spirit in us, it is all there and I didn't put them all up just a small handful.

None of the scriptures I posted agree with your point of view, take them and lets go over
them one by one, I will gladly do the same with each one you present.

You are trying to throw a bunch a vague passages around that does not address the issue. Here is what you have to establish if you are after truth:

Can someone be both flesh and blood and a spirit being as well ?

My answer to that is NO and I provided proof from Christ

What is your answer to that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are trying to throw a bunch a vague passages around that does not address the issue. Here is what you have to establish if you are after truth:

Can someone be both flesh and blood and a spirit being as well ?

My answer to that is NO and I provided proof from Christ

What is your answer to that?

No such thing as a vague passage of scripture.
They each go directly to the point I was making.
You have a spirit within you don't you think, a human spirit?
Jesus' words were used by me several times to prove this point not just with this exchange. You must be born again, the Holy Spirit is being sent to us because Jesus said He was leaving.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are living in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless, indeed, you fail to pass the test!

Originally posted by KellyJay
No such thing as a vague passage of scripture.
They each go directly to the point I was making.
You have a spirit within you don't you think, a human spirit?
Jesus' words were used by me several times to prove this point not just with this exchange. You must be born again, the Holy Spirit is being sent to us because Jesus said He was leaving.

2 Corint ...[text shortened]... lves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless, indeed, you fail to pass the test!

What is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Whoever is born of the Spirit cannot sin
A spirit does not have flesh and blood.

You sin. You are born of flesh
You have flesh and blood
You are mortal and corruptible.

When Christ returns THEN IF you please Christ, THEN you are regenerated, given a new and glorious body fashioned after Christ, and you are only THEN born of the Spirit and THEN you enter the Kingdom of God.

Dont take what does not belong to you as yet. That is a sin.
Dont grab at eternal life when Christ has not granted it to you yet.
Dont be greedy, and out of place. be humble and patient
Wait for the return of Christ and wait for His judgment.
Let Christ elevate you to your rightful position as one of His in His Kingdom

Im done now 🙂