@mchill saidI recall you've played this card a few times in the past when responding to my posts.
Yes, as I recall you've played this card a few times in the past when responding to my posts. Your sarcasm aside, the fact remains there are some things in the bible that simply cannot be explained logically.
I have never said it before in all my 18.5 years before. I thought of it yesterday.
@mchill saidthe fact remains there are some things in the bible that simply cannot be explained logically.
Well, well. This is such a Swiss army knife-type debating point.
Yes, as I recall you've played this card a few times in the past when responding to my posts. Your sarcasm aside, the fact remains there are some things in the bible that simply cannot be explained logically.
Why would a supposedly divine system for the imposition of obedience, reward, and punishment onto human life need to be "far above our ability to comprehend"? For whose benefit is such supposed incomprehensibility?
It sounds like something dredged up from the human imagination rather than 'divine wisdom'.
@fmf saidOne would think that an Omniscient God, Who knows human frailties better than humans themselves do, could have, and would have, devised a revelation formulated as His Final Word so clearly, simply, and self-consistently, that no one, however dense, could fail to be persuaded of it.
the fact remains there are some things in the bible that simply cannot be explained logically.
Why would a supposedly divine system for the imposition of obedience, reward, and punishment onto human life need to be "far above our ability to comprehend"? For whose benefit is such supposed incomprehensibility?
It sounds like something dredged up from the human imagination rather than 'divine wisdom'.
‘Oh, but God isn’t like that. He’s Incomprehensible. And He isn’t ’in your face’, He wants us to CHOOSE.’ So incarnating as a human and hurling miracles at people wasn’t ’in your face’?! There is indeed quite a lot about this that is incomprehensible; such as, how the people who believe it can get themselves past the mendacity and the illogical bits.
Personally, I think Tertullian was one of the few who was really honest about his faith when he declared that he believed BECAUSE it was impossible, not despite its being impossible.
Guys, this is very important...
You need to be a Trinitarian Christian to be a Christian. OK? Because, if you aren't, it might look like normal Christianity in terms of most things, but it creates giant fissures that make the Bible now contradictory and completely fallible, and whenever you want, you can declare it to be "unclear," and once it becomes "unclear" in one thing, you can decalre it "unclear!" in many things...
And that means you are no longer worshiping God. You are worshiping yourself.
Because the God you worship is now whatever you want Him to be as you subconsciously interpret the Bible in ways you find agreeable.
Check out this compilation of Bible quotes and think to yourself as you read them...
"Can the Bible still make sense if I deny the Trinity?"
And if your denial of the Trinity just means denial of the divinity of Christ... Ask yourself, why is it that the only way to the Father is through the Son? If Christ is not divine, and a prophet just like the others, how can you begin to explain John 1?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.
...
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
... And how do you explain this as God as a NON-ETERNAL being if the Word was with God in the beginning?... The same Word who Was God..?
The Trinity is the only thing we can conclude.
God is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit - there are three Divine Persons, and they share ONE essence, and are Undivided.
And Jesus Christ has Two Natures (sometime said Two Essences), one that is Fully Human, which is unique to Christ while He was a man in the flesh on earth, and one that is Fully Divine, the essence that is shared with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Here's the thing:
- Protestants
- Catholics
- Orthodox
We all agree on this in spite of our very large and significantly different other doctrines, and we have always said that those who disbelieve this are in a special category apart from us and their disbelief is a serious threat to the edifice of the Church. Not necessarily because there is somethign so wicekd about misunderstanding the Trinity in itself, but because something wicked actually comes from the misunderstanding of the Trinity: the undermining of the whole Christian doctrine by rendering the Bible incomprehensible and confused.
@philokalia saidAs for those giant fissures that make the Bible now contradictory and completely fallible...
Guys, this is very important...
You need to be a Trinitarian Christian to be a Christian. OK? Because, if you aren't, it might look like normal Christianity in terms of most things, but it creates giant fissures that make the Bible now contradictory and completely fallible, and whenever you want, you can declare it to be "unclear," and once it becomes "unclear" ...[text shortened]... he undermining of the whole Christian doctrine by rendering the Bible incomprehensible and confused.
Hence, hundreds of years after the Gospels were written, the theology of the Trinity had to be concocted.