JW Question

Originally posted by FMF
Well I answered your question - I don't know how mercy can displayed unless it is in a tangible way. What about my questions to you: Can you see how mercy can displayed unless it is in a tangible way? Can anybody, in your experience?

I am of the opinion that it must be expressed in a tangible way, otherwise, how can it
exist?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
exactly, but so what if a Christian does?

(Hebrews 13:15) Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is,
the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name


do you find this objectionable? indeed why should you find this objectionable, do tell.

Do I find it objectionable? No, not as such. I find it a little disappointing, to be frank, that a normal decent thing that a person might do voluntarily for their fellow citizens, without explicit self-regarding claims that it is a personal "sacrifice", is turned into "the equivalent of blood sacrifice" when seen through the prism of Christianity. Yes, disappointing. There are millions upon millions of people out here just getting on with it because it feels like the right thing to do. And yet for you it's "the equivalent of blood sacrifice".

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am of the opinion that it must be expressed in a tangible way, otherwise, how can it
exist?

I never claimed that mercy did not exist, robbie. That's why I was nonplussed by your begging-the-question word play.

Originally posted by FMF
Do I find it objectionable? No, not as such. I find it a little disappointing, to be frank, that a normal decent thing that a person might do voluntarily for their fellow citizens, without explicit self-regarding claims that it is a personal "sacrifice", is turned into "the equivalent of blood sacrifice" when seen through the prism of Christianity. Yes, disappoi ...[text shortened]... els like the right thing to do. And yet for you it's "the equivalent of blood sacrifice".

If they are pleasing their God and it makes them happy to think of it in those terms
then why would that be disappointing, on the contrary simply because others are doing
it because it makes them feel good about themselves, to borrow your phrase i find
rather disquieting, after all, surely a spirit of self sacrifice is by its very nature
designed to put others ahead of oneself and thus any tangible spiritual benefits we may
receive are of secondary importance to the help that we are giving.

I repeat, i am a human being.

Originally posted by FMF
I never claimed that mercy did not exist, robbie. That's why I was nonplussed by your begging-the-question word play.

I never stated you did FMF, this is my opinion i am expressing after having been asked,
by you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
If they are pleasing their God and it makes them happy to think of it in those terms
then why would that be disappointing...

Because I feel it's too self-regarding for my taste and rather dilutes any altruism that there may be. But they - and you - can do what you want, of course; see it as you want to see it; tell yourself it is whatever you want it to be. "The equivalent of blood sacrifice"? Go for it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I never stated you did FMF, this is my opinion i am expressing after having been asked,
by you.

So we both think "mercy" exists. So it's got nothing to do with religion, then, clearly.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
surely a spirit of self sacrifice is by its very nature designed to put others ahead of oneself and thus any tangible spiritual benefits we may receive are of secondary importance to the help that we are giving.

I think seeing one's normal decent acts towards others as "self sacrifice" actually detracts from and weakens the claim that one is "putting others ahead of oneself". If I were inclined to dwell upon my own alleged "self sacrifice" when I do voluntary work, then I think there would be too much 'thinking about me' at the expense of "putting others ahead of [my]self". Just my point of view, that's all.

Originally posted by FMF
Because I feel it's too self-regarding for my taste and rather dilutes any altruism that there may be. But they - and you - can do what you want, of course; see it as you want to see it; tell yourself it is whatever you want it to be. "The equivalent of blood sacrifice"? Go for it.

self regarding???, i am quite sure they are not think wow, look how i am sacrificing my
time and resources doesn't that make me great, I want a badge that i can wear so
everyone can see how awesome i am, failing that i ll climb a tree and call out like
Tarzan and let the people know, 🙄

Originally posted by FMF
So we both think "mercy" exists. So it's got nothing to do with religion, then, clearly.

no, my pint is that for it to exist it must find a recipient, in others words, it becomes
manifest through a tangible act, prior to this, it does not exist.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no, my pint is that for it to exist it must find a recipient, in others words, it becomes
manifest through a tangible act, prior to this, it does not exist.

I don't disagree. So it's got nothing to do with religion, because while you are religious, I am not.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
self regarding???

Yes. Self regarding.

You said:

"If they are pleasing their God and it makes them happy to think of it in those terms [as "self-sacrifice" and "the equivalent of blood sacrifice"] then why would that be disappointing, on the contrary simply because others are doing it because it makes them feel good about themselves, to borrow your phrase i find rather disquieting, after all, surely a spirit of self sacrifice is by its very nature designed to put others ahead of oneself"

If they tell themselves it is "self-sacrifice" and they are - as you yourself said - "doing it because it makes them feel good about themselves" and "it makes them happy", then that - in my book, anyway, - is self regarding. Clearly so, I'd say.

Originally posted by FMF
es. Self regarding.

You said:

If they are pleasing their God and it makes them happy to think of it in those terms [as "self-sacrifice" and "the equivalent of blood sacrifice"] then why would that be disappointing, on the contrary simply because others are doing it because it makes them feel good about themselves, to borrow your phrase i find rather m happy", then that - in my book, anyway, - is self regarding. Clearly so, I'd say

If they tell themselves it is "self-sacrifice" and they are,

i think that is probably the last thing they are telling themselves! speaking frankly Mr
Shankly! In fact in fifteen or more years as a voluntary worker I cannot say that the
thought has ever crossed my mind, indeed, concern for others is paramount and
practically prevents it, regardless of what you are trying to insinuate to the contrary.

Originally posted by FMF
I don't disagree. So it's got nothing to do with religion, because while you are religious, I am not.

you seem not a little paranoid to distance yourself from religious practice, yes of
course mercy can be demonstrated by the non religious, they are after all, human
beings as well.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you seem not a little paranoid to distance yourself from religious practice, yes of
course mercy can be demonstrated by the non religious, they are after all, human
beings as well.

I am not religious, robbie. How is stating this "paranoid"? Your religiosity turns an ordinary act of decency and compassion into what you call "the equivalent of blood sacrifice" for you. It doesn't do anything of the sort for me. And I am not religious.