Spirituality
24 Mar 19
28 Mar 19
@divegeester saidWe had some friends in the late 1970s whose family were JW.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_unfulfilled_predictions
You should read this and learn from the past false prophesies of your church leaders.
My friend would relate how his JW brother would say things like: no need to change the tyres on this car; they will last until Armageddon!
We would laugh about it, and ask ourselves what do they plan to do with the money they saved (by not buying tyres) after Armageddon?
Seriously though, I was saddened by the way his family shunned our friends because they chose not to join the club.
But bottom line is that we accepted their (the JWs) choice of faith, including the whole caboodle of problems like their curious views on blood transfusions and eschatology. Of course we disagreed - as I disagree with Galv - on key issues (if I didn't I would join them wouldn't I?)
But I accept their right to their particular (if curious) point of view.
Isn't that what we ALL expect from each other?
@galveston75 saidYou left for quite a while after you sent me that PM full of weird sexual insults and accusations. And you also disappeared for a while after you claimed that, if I had been a German in the 1940s, I would have been one of the ones who gassed JWs in the concentration camps.
I've never disappeared as you say because of anything I've read of anything posted here. I've left a few times because of the crap thrown at me because of my beliefs.
28 Mar 19
@caljust saidThat would be nice but it doesn't happen. But thanks for your comments on this....
We had some friends in the late 1970s whose family were JW.
My friend would relate how his JW brother would say things like: no need to change the tyres on this car; they will last until Armageddon!
We would laugh about it, and ask ourselves what do they plan to do with the money they saved (by not buying tyres) after Armageddon?
Seriously though, I was saddened by ...[text shortened]... ht to their particular (if curious) point of view.
Isn't that what we ALL expect from each other?
28 Mar 19
@caljust saidI grew quite friendly with a married couple who were JWs in Japan. We had lunch a few times and talked about Jesus. I also had another JW married couple I was friends with in the UK, a long time ago now, who got disfellowshipped and became conventional Christians.
We had some friends in the late 1970s whose family were JW.
My friend would relate how his JW brother would say things like: no need to change the tyres on this car; they will last until Armageddon!
We would laugh about it, and ask ourselves what do they plan to do with the money they saved (by not buying tyres) after Armageddon?
Seriously though, I was saddened by ...[text shortened]... ht to their particular (if curious) point of view.
Isn't that what we ALL expect from each other?
28 Mar 19
@sonship
Your excessively long posts really preach to the choir, as fmf said.
I find myself completely smothered in Christianese, and am almost sorry I asked!
Maybe we can continue with only one subject at a time, and I suggest we drop this thread and you respond rather to my comments in the "debunk or not debunk" thread.
But one request - please try to be more succinct and to the point. Time is precious!
Peace!
28 Mar 19
1 edit
@caljust saidsonship once suggested that he may be rewarded with a more senior position in "Heaven" as a recognition of his 'good works' here ~ at least that's how I remember what he said ~ by which I mean his regurgitation of the ideas of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee at length instead of just posting some links to all that [for anyone interested] and then just having genuine conversations with people here instead.
@sonship
Your excessively long posts really preach to the choir, as fmf said.
I find myself completely smothered in Christianese, and am almost sorry I asked!
Maybe we can continue with only one subject at a time, and I suggest we drop this thread and you respond rather to my comments in the "debunk or not debunk" thread.
But one request - please try to be more succinct and to the point. Time is precious!
Peace!
28 Mar 19
@fmf saidI must have had a reason for doing that. What did you do to get that kind of response from me?
You left for quite a while after you sent me that PM full of weird sexual insults and accusations. And you also disappeared for a while after you claimed that, if I had been a German in the 1940s, I would have been one of the ones who gassed JWs in the concentration camps.
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28 Mar 19
@galveston75 saidWorking in mental health I have more than one encounter of this kind with members of your particular 'denomination.'
What? It's a strange question but no I've never seen any JW take advantage as you say of anyone like that.
And what do you mean as an easy convert? Are you suggesting were out to get a quota or something?
The most memorable (as I have recounted to Robbie in the past) was during a home visit I made to a chap who was not only trying to cope with schizophrenia but was also going through a recent relapse. (So was visibly unwell and deeply paranoid). During my visit two Jehovah Witnesses came to his door (not their first visit) and spoke to him, unaware that I was in his front room listening to their conversation. I genuinely have never heard such raw manipulation of a vulnerable person by individuals who clearly thought they had some kind of control over him. Needless to say their demeanour changed considerably when I made my presence known and explained why I was there.
Other examples available upon request, including one that is still ongoing. - Like I asked, what is your view on such behaviour? I put it down to JWs having the door slammed on them so often that they relished finding someone unable to tell them that they weren't interested, even if this person was clearly in no state of mind to deal with what they were telling him. - Also, isn't your own salvation intertwined with your missionary work? I assume you have to evidence this in some way at your Kingdom Hall?
28 Mar 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI'm sorry for your experiences with the JW's you have been around. Hopefully not all have been such a bad experience for you if you have come in contact with more of them.
Working in mental health I have more than one encounter of this kind with members of your particular 'denomination.'
The most memorable (as I have recounted to Robbie in the past) was during a home visit I made to a chap who was not only trying to cope with schizophrenia but was also going through a recent relapse. (So was visibly unwell and deeply paranoid). Durin ...[text shortened]... ined with your missionary work? I assume you have to evidence this in some way at your Kingdom Hall?
We are not perfect at all. I'm living proof of that.
But without hearing what they said or why they said it I'm at a disadvantage.
Jesus did warn the congregations that as time went on "oppressive wolves would come into the congregations and do harm and would try to mislead many".
I cannot say why they said what they said or did what they did, but I promise you this is not the actions of ones who truly say they love Jehovah and spend many hours of their own time and the expenses to go door to door to share bible truths with them. Our goal is to let them see what Jehovah offers as a hope for the future to all that will listen.
We also get warnings from time to time about ones who do come into a congregation that are really not JW's and to be aware of them and hopefully get them removed from the Hall before harm is done. I've seen that myself a couple times by ones that were not a Witness.
It is sad that some pray on others no matter the religion as we all know happens today.
And no work or teaching or speaking to others does anything for our salvation. Sorry you have that understanding but that is not the way it works. I know the Mormons do believe in such a process like that. Could be who your thinking of.
28 Mar 19
@galveston75 saidI asked you things about the claims you'd made here, in public, on this debate and discussion forum.
I must have had a reason for doing that. What did you do to get that kind of response from me?
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28 Mar 19
5 edits
sonship once suggested that he may be rewarded with a more senior position in "Heaven" as a recognition of his 'good works' here ~ at least that's how I remember what he said
No, I did not ever teach ANYTHING about junior or senior positions in Heaven.
In fact I don't teach about Heaven as a permanent destination of the saved.
You may produce the QUOTATION if you disagree.
If anyone is interested I think I may know what I wrote that FMF is twisting to formulate his slander.
~ by which I mean his regurgitation of the ideas of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee at length instead of just posting some links to all that [for anyone interested] and then just having genuine conversations with people here instead.
First of all I have regurgitated a number of good servants of God which said things worth repeating.
You have never pinpointed exactly WHAT is wrong with REPEATING what was good to REPEAT written or spoken by someone else.
If there is some basic evil in saying what was said before by someone else please explain the intrinsic EVIL of doing so.
Jesus repeated John the Baptist exactly in saying "Repent for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." Compare Matthew 3:2 and Mattt. 4:17.
So to the Caljusts and FMFs of this world.
1.) I will not promise to discuss all profound truths in your requirement of something like twenty five words of less.
2.) If repeating the words of others is deemed by me and the Holy Spirit to be useful, I will repeat the words of whatever servant of God who uttered them before me.
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28 Mar 19
1 edit
To demonstrate what FMF is twisting, I will show you what I did write once.
I QUOTED Jesus in Matthew 5:19, which of course says NOTHING about Watchman Nee or Witness Lee.
Jesus taught that in the kingdom of the heavens, (here meaning the millennial reign for a thousand years) there would be His servants called great in the kingdom and His servants called least in the kingdom.
" For truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, one iota or one tittle shall by no means pass away from the law until all come to pass.
Whoever therefore shall annul one of the least of these commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of the heavens; but whoever practices and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens." (Matt. 5:18,19)
As you can see, no mention whatsoever there is there of any particular servant of Jesus, let alone two not born for another couple of thousand years.
Watch out for FMF. He twists words and slanders with half truths and lies of his own way of inventing them.
28 Mar 19
@sonship saidSomething about getting extra rewards in "Heaven" for your hard/good work posting here. It was a case of maybe you would. You didn't say you'd definitely get them. But it was possible blash blah. You then tried, successfully, to suffocate the discussion by posting 3 or 4 super long posts with Bible quotes and html code and the whole thing. No, I am not going to go looking for the quote. If people don't think that you would be so vain as to make that claim, or that I am lying about you, so be it.
No, I did not ever teach ANYTHING about junior or senior positions in Heaven.
28 Mar 19
@sonship saidI am talking about your frequent regurgitation of the ideas of Witness Lee and Watchman Nee rather than just posting some links to all that for anyone interested and then just having genuine conversations with members of this community instead. I'm not talking about Matthew. I am talking about your thousands of posts trotting out Witness Lee and Watchman Nee stuff available elsewhere online.
I QUOTED Jesus in Matthew 5:19, which of course says NOTHING about Watchman Nee or Witness Lee.
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28 Mar 19
@FMF
Beloney.
I quoted Matthew 5:19 with some explanatory comments most likely.
And blaming my use of HTML is beyond lame.