16 Nov 05
Originally posted by KellyJayYour groups are too judgmental for me esp. 2. One may well be doing the works described in Matthew 25 without thinking God owes them anything - they might not believe in an afterlife at all. If Matthew 25 is taken explicitly, they will be with Jesus as that passage makes no mention of "faith" or "grace" but speaks only of acts of kindness, mercy and charity to your fellow Man. If people want to argue differently, present something from the Gospels that says that no matter how well you treat your fellow Man you may be damned anyway. That's the debate I'm interested in from an intellectual standpoint, not your characterizations of other people's motives.
It is like going to the movies, you pay you walk in and watch
the movie you bought the ticket for. Jesus bought the ticket,
we walk in faith, which is doing what we know he wants. That
is different that donig what we think he wants to get him to
buy us that ticket.
My views of the combinations:
1. There are those who don't do anything because the ...[text shortened]... st are not, they are damned. My list is close to
yours, just a little different I think.
Kelly
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterThe KJV translation (which is late Mediaval English after all) uses "midst" where we would use "middle".
Jesus in the "midst" should be a clue right there. It would say "between" if there were two.
Here's another example:
27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Daniel 9: 27)
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterDid he have the chance to do anything but have faith?
Ah...not so fast...
Luke 23:39-43
39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us."
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 "And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but t ...[text shortened]... , today you will be with Me in Paradise."
(NKJ)
What did this criminal do but have faith?🙂
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by no1marauderMy judgment has nothing to do with it; it isn't my Kingdom we are
Your groups are too judgmental for me esp. 2. One may well be doing the works described in Matthew 25 without thinking God owes them anything - they might not believe in an afterlife at all. If Matthew 25 is taken explicitly, they will be with Jesus as that passage makes no mention of "faith" or "grace" but speaks only of acts of kindness, mercy and ...[text shortened]... ested in from an intellectual standpoint, not your characterizations of other people's motives.
talking about. Feeding the hungry is a good thing, all of the above
can do it or not. It is the relationship that matters, are you basing
your faith on what Jesus did, or what you do? One rests with God
the other does not; it goes about establishing one's own
righteousness, or accepting the righteousness that God gives.
Kelly
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by RBHILLLOL! You can't read!
LOL, wrong guy.
It is the faith that she had that saved her nothing else.
Read the book of Hebrew. It talks about how Abe. was justified by faith too.
Luke 7:47 demonstrates that her faith was inextricably tied to the way in which
she loved others! Those are actions or what non-morons call 'Living Faith.'
Nemesio
16 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you ever stop writing such tedious posts? It is YOUR judgement that went into the description of the categories in YOUR post; you wrote it, not God. Many here seem to think that THEIR views are the same as God's, but I don't see much evidence of that. Please stop parroting the same bland assertions over and over again; if you have some Scriptural support for your position, use it. Otherwise, I'm not really interested in your vague musings.
My judgment has nothing to do with it; it isn't my Kingdom we are
talking about. Feeding the hungry is a good thing, all of the above
can do it or not. It is the relationship that matters, are you basing
your faith on what Jesus did, or what you do? One rests with God
the other does not; it goes about establishing one's own
righteousness, or accepting the righteousness that God gives.
Kelly
- Joined
- 08 Dec 04
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- 100919
16 Nov 05
We are saved through faith by grace. Faith is what saves people. Good works are a result of faith. If there are no good works, faith is probably lacking as well. Faith demands change in an individual.
Rom 4:5
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
(NKJ)
James 2:22
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
(NKJ)
Faith is a verb and connotes action. What good would it do me to say I have faith that I can ski off a mountain and then won't do it?
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou're putting the cart before the horse. Point to something in the Gospels (not Paul) that says "faith is what saves people". You need to put something from Jesus' mouth up against Matthew 25:31-46 where he clearly says works are required and never mentions faith or grace. Can you do that?
We are saved through faith by grace. Faith is what saves people. Good works are a result of faith. If there are no good works, faith is probably lacking as well. Faith demands change in an individual.
Rom 4:5
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
(NKJ)
James 2:22 ...[text shortened]... hat good would it do me to say I have faith that I can ski off a mountain and then won't do it?
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by lucifershammer"And now, Israel, what does the LORD, your God, ask of you but to fear the LORD, your God, and follow his ways exactly, to love and serve the LORD, your God, with all your heart and all your soul, ... "[36] One of the Pharisees asked him to eat with him, and he went into the Pharisee's house, and took his place at table.
[37] And behold, a woman of the city, who was a sinner, when she learned that he was at table in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster flask of ointment,
[38] and standing behind him at his feet, weeping, she began ...[text shortened]... ] And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
--- Luke 7, RSV
Deuteronomy 10-12
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterBTW, faith cannot be a verb in the sentence "Faith is what saves people" or "faith demands change in an individual" or in the other sentences in your first paragraph..
We are saved through faith by grace. Faith is what saves people. Good works are a result of faith. If there are no good works, faith is probably lacking as well. Faith demands change in an individual.
Rom 4:5
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
(NKJ)
James 2:22 ...[text shortened]... hat good would it do me to say I have faith that I can ski off a mountain and then won't do it?
16 Nov 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeCould you leave the Old Testament mumbo jumbo about a "jealous God" who people must "fear" out of this thread? We're talking Jesus here.
"And now, Israel, what does the LORD, your God, ask of you but to fear the LORD, your God, and follow his ways exactly, to love and serve the LORD, your God, with all your heart and all your soul, ... "
Deuteronomy 10-12
16 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderPsalms
Chapter 120
A song of ascents.
1 The LORD answered me when I called in my distress:
2 LORD, deliver me from lying lips, from treacherous tongues.
3 What will the Lord inflict on you, O treacherous tongue, and what more besides?
4 A warrior's sharpened arrows and fiery coals of brush wood!
5 Alas, I was an alien in Meshech, I lived near the tents of Kedar!
6 Too long did I live among those who hated peace.
7 When I spoke of peace, they were for war.