16 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeWhat do you think he died of?
After 40 years of struggling to understand scripture and getting to know God I've only been able to identify two denominations I don't have any particular problem with... baptist and pentecostal. With nearly every other denomination (some I'm not familiar with) I've seen varying degrees of understanding and adherence to scripture.
Disagreement over som ...[text shortened]... eaten so badly before being nailed to a cross it astonishes me that he lasted as long as he did.
16 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeIt was "before Abraham was, I AM", but your point is valid. robbie carrobie would take issue with you over the "I AM" interpretation, but of course he has to follow JW dogma.
I also remember reading where Jesus had said "Before Moses was I AM". I AM is a proper name for God (the Father) revealed to Moses after Moses asked God for his name.
My contention with trinitarians is that Jesus prior to incarnation (and post) was not a separate entity from "God". Appearances can be deceiving.
Originally posted by divegeester
It was "before Abraham was, I AM", but your point is valid. robbie carrobie would take issue with you over the "I AM" interpretation, but of course he has to follow JW dogma.
My contention with trinitarians is that Jesus prior to incarnation (and post) was not a separate entity from "God". Appearances can be deceiving.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1 KJV)
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Genesis 1:26-27 KJV)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by divegeesterWhen you respond to my explaining of eternal punishment by laboring to affix a sadistic attitude to me rather than a reasoned alternative explanation of relevant passages it is telling. It makes me assume that you don't have confidence in those kinds of counter arguments.
It's a bit odd that you would post in a thread and refuse to discuss the thread topic.
Or when some alternative explanation to those passages is not accepted by me you use that as evidence that I am sadistically eager for people to be punished forever.
I think then that what you have confidence in more is to portray Christians as sadists for believing those passages in their full force.
"God is love" (1 John 4:7) and "our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29) are not mutually exclusive truths.
We should believe both and trust God who has told us both.
16 Jul 15
Originally posted by divegeesterIt was "before Abraham was, I AM"
It was "before Abraham was, I AM", but your point is valid. robbie carrobie would take issue with you over the "I AM" interpretation, but of course he has to follow JW dogma.
My contention with trinitarians is that Jesus prior to incarnation (and post) was not a separate entity from "God". Appearances can be deceiving.
Oh good grief, you're right... he wouldn't have said before "Moses was". If I wasn't feeling so loopy from staying up late last night I might have caught that in time to change it.
16 Jul 15
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayI think he died of death.
What do you think he died of?
just kidding
I get your point. But if you take a closer look at what he said before dying, his death appears to be more of an act of the will rather than a body simply dying. When you consider (and if you believe) the sort of life saving and life resuscitating miracles he performed on other people, then there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done the same for himself... and by that I mean healing himself, and preventing himself from dying.
17 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeJohn 10:18
I think he died of death.
just kidding
I get your point. But if you take a closer look at what he said before dying, his death appears to be more of an act of the will rather than a body simply dying. When you consider (and if you believe) the sort of life saving and life resuscitating miracles he performed on other people, then there's no re ...[text shortened]... e the same for himself... and by that I mean healing himself, and preventing himself from dying.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
17 Jul 15
3 edits
Originally posted by sonshipFor the record (if there is such a thing), I have never implied let alone portrayed you nor any other Christian who believes in eternal suffering as sadistic; you saying I have is dishonest.
When you respond to my explaining of eternal punishment by laboring to affix a sadistic attitude to me rather than a reasoned alternative explanation of relevant passages it is telling. It makes me assume that you don't have confidence in those kinds of counter arguments.
Or when some alternative explanation to those passages is not accepted by me ...[text shortened]... e not mutually exclusive truths.
We should believe both and trust God who has told us both.
To be clear, it is YOU who has stated that you believe that Jesus/God keeping people alive while burning them for eternity is a demonstration of gods perfect justice. What I am saying is that you are making God out to be a sadist, which is quite different from how you are misrepresenting me.
I wholeheartedly reject the teaching of eternal suffering and find it astonishing that people will abandon their moral compass and accept it.
17 Jul 15
Why you Christians who believe in the teaching of eternal suffering have abandoned your moral compass:
Tell me, is it morally acceptable for ISIS to burn people alive for what they do or do not believe? Yes or no?
Obviously no. OBVIOUSLY NO!
But if your version of God does something even worse by not only burning them but also keeping them alive for eternity while he burns them...it's suddenly OK...
Moral abandonment. It is thinking like this that causes much of shlt that goes on in the world.
17 Jul 15
Originally posted by divegeesterYou KNOW the answer to this.
Why you Christians who believe in the teaching of eternal suffering have abandoned your moral compass:
Tell me, is it morally acceptable for ISIS to burn people alive for what they do or do not believe? Yes or no?
Obviously no. OBVIOUSLY NO!
But if your version of God does something even worse by not only burning them but also keeping them aliv ...[text shortened]...
Moral abandonment. It is thinking like this that causes much of shlt that goes on in the world.
It's only been said about a zillion times in this forum, and I would think it would be inherently obvious to any theist.