More Righteous Than Jesus Christ?

Originally posted by @thinkofone
In Leviticus 25:44-46 God is depicted as clearly and unambiguously condoning chattel slavery.

That flies in the face of what Jesus taught is the foundation of the will of God:
Matthew 7
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 22
37And He said to him, “ ...[text shortened]... His ministry.

Leviticus 25:44-46 is an example of how the Jews didn't really understand God.

One might expect any comparison between Leviticus and Matthew to indeed focus on differences. There is a world of difference between the old covenant and the new covenant.

The New Testament is not part of Hebrew scripture. It is nonsensical to wave the New Testament at Jews and say "What's wrong with you?"

Originally posted by @suzianne
One might expect any comparison between Leviticus and Matthew to indeed focus on differences. There is a world of difference between the old covenant and the new covenant.

The New Testament is not part of Hebrew scripture. It is nonsensical to wave the New Testament at Jews and say "What's wrong with you?"

Different covenants, 'same' unchanging God. (Allegedly).

Originally posted by @suzianne
One might expect any comparison between Leviticus and Matthew to indeed focus on differences. There is a world of difference between the old covenant and the new covenant.

The New Testament is not part of Hebrew scripture. It is nonsensical to wave the New Testament at Jews and say "What's wrong with you?"

The New Testament is not part of Hebrew scripture. It is nonsensical to wave the New Testament at Jews and say "What's wrong with you?"

I wasn't "wav[ing] the New Testament at Jews". If you'd been following my discussion with jaywill, you might know that.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Different covenants, 'same' unchanging God. (Allegedly).

At the risk of opening yet another can of worms, I never said that God was "unchanging".

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]The New Testament is not part of Hebrew scripture. It is nonsensical to wave the New Testament at Jews and say "What's wrong with you?"

I wasn't "wav[ing] the New Testament at Jews". If you'd been following my discussion with jaywill, you might know that.[/b]

But you DID claim that the Jews "didn't really understand God". The fact is that yes, they DID understand the God of the OLD Testament. You were, in fact, waving the NT at them and saying "What's wrong with you?"

Originally posted by @thinkofone

if you have been following the discussion then point out WHERE you answered the question Are YOU AtheistOfOne More Righteous Then Jesus Christ?

I don't recall you saying you were.

So if you are NOT there is no reason we should trust your moral evaluation of God's law in Leviticus as a window into God's character then Christ's estimation.

If you have been following the discussion you would also realize your very cowardice to clearly tell the Forum if you believe God exists or not renders any "teaching" of theology shrouded hopelessly in obfuscation.

Respect from my point of view for such cowardice is impossible.

I have no reason whatsoever assume that you're a better judge of God's character then Jesus is.

In Leviticus 25:44-46 God is depicted as clearly and unambiguously condoning chattel slavery.
-------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is dedicated to the question of whether anyone
discussing things here believes that he or she is More Righteous Then Jesus Christ.

Your reply appears to be NO, (unless I missed something).
For my purposes that the END of the matter for you.


That flies in the face of what Jesus taught is the foundation of the will of God:
Matthew 7
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the law and the prophets.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to CHANGE your vote that you in fact ARE More Righteous Then Jesus Christ then plainly say so.

He called the God of the entire revelation of the Bible Righteous.

You won't say He didn't SAY this.
You won't say He was wrong.
You won't say you believe God exists or not.

It is impossible for me to respect any such "teacher" of biblical themes like this.
You can't be a better judge of God's law and character then Christ. You don't possess the baseline decency to own belief in the God you purport to teach everyone all about.


Matthew 22
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole law and the prophets.” [/b]
----------------------------------------------------------------

Of God Jesus said He was Righteous - "Righteous Father"
If Jesus is WRONG then you must know better then the flawed Son of God. So why don't you proclaim that YOUR righteousness EXCEEDS that of the Lord Jesus Christ?

If you cannot then I should trust the description of God Jesus gave over your criticisms however eloquently argued.

There most be something wrong with your rationale.


Chattel slavery flies in the face of "treat people the same way you want them to treat you".
--------------------------------------------------

What you're not telling about is the various offerings for the Isrealites for being reconciled to God - Consecration offering, Sin offering, Trespass offering, Peace offering.

As God controls and regulates a less than idle cultural custom, the offerings were there when men's consciences convicted them of wrong doing.

If a master found himself abusing God's law he could go to the priest and present prescribed offerings as admission of defect in his living for God and harmony with his fellowman.

This further debate about the nature of servant / master prescriptions belongs on the thread dedicated to that.

Here, I ask for people with the courage to admit that THEY are more qualified to evaluate the morality of God then Jesus was.

Unless I missed something, YOU are NOT that person who believes he is more qualified to judge God's character for His laws.

For you the case is closed. The thread has served its purpose to me as far as you are concerned.

Originally posted by @suzianne
At the risk of opening yet another can of worms, I never said that God was "unchanging".

I assumed you concurred with the Bible.


"For I, the LORD, do not change..."
(Malachi 3:6)

Originally posted by @suzianne
But you DID claim that the Jews "didn't really understand God". The fact is that yes, they DID understand the God of the OLD Testament. You were, in fact, waving the NT at them and saying "What's wrong with you?"

Seriously? You're not making any sense. My post was addressed to a Christian. Yet somehow in your mind I was ""wav[ing] the New Testament at Jews"?

If I were addressing a Jew, then I would have waved the following at them :

Once there was a gentile who came before Shammai, and said to him: "Convert me on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot." Shammai pushed him aside with the measuring stick he was holding. The same fellow came before Hillel, and Hillel converted him, saying: "That which is despicable to you, do not do to your fellow, this is the whole Torah, and the rest is commentary, go and learn it." - Babylonian Talmud, Shabbat 31a

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/rabbi-hillel-quotes-on-judaism-and-israel

The Jews who wrote Leviticus 25:44-46 got it wrong.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I assumed you concurred with the Bible.


"For I, the LORD, do not change..."
(Malachi 3:6)

God is unchanging.. God started off with this which hie told Abraham

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Genesis 26:5 KJV)

He ended with this which he told John:

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14 KJV)

Nothing has changed from Adam to the very end
Obedience to God commandments = Eternal life

What changes throughout the history of mankind is how God handles minor issues arising out of mans weaknesses.

Originally posted by @sonship
if you have been following the discussion then point out WHERE you answered the question Are YOU AtheistOfOne [b]More Righteous Then Jesus Christ?

I don't recall you saying you were.

So if you are NOT there is no reason we should trust your moral evaluation of God's law in Leviticus as a window into God's character then Christ's estimation.

If ...[text shortened]... For you the case is closed. The thread has served its purpose to me as far as you are concerned.[/b]

Jaywill, you keep disingenuously ignoring the fact that I have been repeatedly emphasizing that Leviticus 25:44-46 files in the face of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry.

In Leviticus 25:44-46 God is depicted as clearly and unambiguously condoning chattel slavery. 

That flies in the face of what Jesus taught is the foundation of the will of God: 
Matthew 7 
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the law and the prophets. 

Matthew 22 
37And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38“This is the great and foremost commandment. 39“The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40“On these two commandments depend the whole law and the prophets.” 

Chattel slavery flies in the face of "treat people the same way you want them to treat you". 
Chattel slavery flies in the face of "‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF". 
Chattel slavery flies in the face of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 

The Jews thought they understood the will of God. Jesus kept correcting them. The Jews didn't really understand God. This was a prevalent theme in the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry. 

Leviticus 25:44-46 is an example of how the Jews didn't really understand God.

Originally posted by @thinkofone

You've got it wrong, AthiestOfOne.

Why didn't Jesus point out that they got it wrong in Leviticus?

"If He said the were gods, to whom the word of God came, and Scripture cannot be broken." (John 10:35)

He said "Scripture cannot be broken" .
So "They got it wrong" is not the answer.

Originally posted by @sonship
You've got it wrong, AthiestOfOne.

Why didn't Jesus point out that they got it wrong in Leviticus?

[b] "If He said the were gods, to whom the word of God came, and Scripture cannot be broken." (John 10:35)

He said "Scripture cannot be broken" .
So "They got it wrong" is not the answer.[/b]

As usual you've taken a phrase out of context and assigned it a meaning that wasn't intended.

John 10
34Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’? 35“If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

Note that the topic of conversation is not about the OT in general, but about Jesus defending a charge of blasphemy for calling Himself the son of God. He defends himself by quoting Psalm 82:6.

Also note that in the Greek Jesus uses the definite article "he". As such it would be more properly translated as "THE scripture cannot be broken" with THE scripture being Psalm 82:6 specifically. Jesus is saying that Psalm 82:6 cannot be broken.

Given the context and the use of the definite article, it's a real reach to assert that Jesus is speaking of the OT in general there.

Originally posted by @sonship
Who participating in discussions on this Forum believes that they are more righteous than Jesus Christ?

We have Divegeester, for example, boldly claiming that the laws of God concerning slavery in the Pentateuch were "indefensible."

Who are the posters here who believe their righteousness, their morality, and their ethics are [b]greater then that of Jesus Christ ?

This is the place for you to confess that to all of us.[/b]

I do. but that's not a brag. Philosophical study and knowledge, including ethics, evolves over time. I think most people of today have superior morality and ethics, concept-wise, than Jesus. But this is like saying that people know more accurate physics principles than Aristotle. It's not that we ourselves are greater scientists. It's that we've been given free knowledge from the greats that came after him.

Originally posted by @thinkofone

Given the context and the use of the definite article, it's a real reach to assert that Jesus is speaking of the OT in general there.

Scripture cannot be broken was said by Christ to indicate that the Old Testament in general is inspired, infallible, and authoritative.

English Standard Version
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—

Berean Study Bible
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken--

Some translations say "the Scripture". It is ludicrous to argue that Jesus was isolating that particular passage as the ONLY scripture passage which cannot be broken but other scripture CAN be broken.

And Jesus said that there was none good except God.
Had He judged God as not good because of the slave / master laws of the OT then He would not have said that there is ONE GOOD - God.

"But Jesus said to him, Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One - God." (Luke 18:19)

He said the heavenly Father was perfect.

" ... your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matt. 5:48)

He tells His disciples to seek Gods kingdom and God's righteousness, again indicating His evaluation of God was that He was righteous.

"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you." (Matt. 6:33)

The Perfect, Righteous, Good, God Who inspired Scripture which cannot be broken gave some laws to control and regulate the ancient near east custom of slavery - an custom which was not ideal.

His Father He called "Righteous Father" (John 17:25) .

Who should you trust to be a better judge of the character of God Who gave the law - the pro crypto atheist ThinkOfOne or Jesus Christ?

I choose to trust Jesus Christ's evaluation over ToO's.

Originally posted by @sonship

Given the context and the use of the definite article, it's a real reach to assert that Jesus is speaking of the OT in general there.

[b]Scripture cannot be broken was said by Christ to indicate that the Old Testament in general is inspired, infallible, and authoritative.

[quote] English Standard Version
If he called t ...[text shortened]... atheist ThinkOfOne or Jesus Christ?

I choose to trust Jesus Christ's evaluation over ToO's.[/b]

Tell you what jaywill. Find someone you trust that has better reading comprehension than you and ask them to explain the following to you:

As usual you've taken a phrase out of context and assigned it a meaning that wasn't intended.

John 10
34Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’? 35“If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

Note that the topic of conversation is not about the OT in general, but about Jesus defending a charge of blasphemy for calling Himself the son of God. He defends himself by quoting Psalm 82:6.

Also note that in the Greek Jesus uses the definite article "he". As such it would be more properly translated as "THE scripture cannot be broken" with THE scripture being Psalm 82:6 specifically. Jesus is saying that Psalm 82:6 cannot be broken.

Given the context and the use of the definite article, it's a real reach to assert that Jesus is speaking of the OT in general there.