Spirituality
03 Dec 09
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadbecause jesus said so.
So everyone should believe Genesis and its fanciful tales to the letter, but the 'principles' that are laid down in the Mosaic law don't really need to be taken seriously?
if jesus would have forgetten to mention "don't follow the mosaic laws" we would have been still stoning people to this day.
please notice the most important issue of his post: he is not following the mosaic laws not because they are evil, but because jesus said so. for that matter, everything he does, he does because jesus says so. not because it is the right thing to do.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75Jesus gives us here an example of his teaches. And fundamentalists doesn't listen at him. He says, in modern language, the following: "Don't read the bible literarily. Adapt it to newer times. Get rid of the obsolete parts and listen to new findings. If science gives us new evidence of the creation, then belive in them. If Darwin gives us new information about species and how they evolve, then believe in him. Get rid of the old stuff and don't be stiff in your mind. Embrace the new things about the opus of god, don't deny it." This is the words of Jesus as he would teach us today.
There is the perfect example that you have not gotten any of the very basic points from Jesus's teachings. He made it very clear we are no longer bound by those laws as he himself fulfilled them.
You said yourself: "Read all of what Jesus says about that." Then act upon it. Act like a modern human being, not as you were born in the 2nd millennia B.C.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75adjusting what? the bible doesn't change.
Constantly learning and adjusting just as the Bible says would happen. Prov 4:18, 19.
as a logical conclusion it is you who changes by learning. and what does this learning mean? not looking up new evidences, new sources. but by going over the same source all over again.
so if what you read and learn today might be "adjusted" tomorrow, doesn't that say that basically, we form our own understanding of the bible? that it no longer is god's word but our understanding of god's word that is important? isn't that exactly what i say?
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by Proper KnobFrom the early years the Watchtower Society did not always have a correct understanding of some points in the Bible. Again the scripture I just quoted explains that would happen. But as time has past it has become clearer and most of the scriptures, especially with the prophycies that relate to our time period are clearer.
Nope i mean your spiritual views.
Do you accept you could be wrong?
So no, I have no doubt that our understanding of the Bible now is wrong. We can stand up to any test. Our friend here on the forum no doubt has a good heart but unfortunently his religion has not taught him very basic updates I guess you could say from the Bible. Most religions never encourage ones to even open their Bibles.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by ZahlanziNo it simple means understanding scriptures that one may not now. What else could that scripture mean about the light geting brighter?
adjusting what? the bible doesn't change.
as a logical conclusion it is you who changes by learning. and what does this learning mean? not looking up new evidences, new sources. but by going over the same source all over again.
so if what you read and learn today might be "adjusted" tomorrow, doesn't that say that basically, we form our own understand ...[text shortened]... ord but our understanding of god's word that is important? isn't that exactly what i say?
I talked to a Catholic priest many years ago that had his own congregation. I was talkng about a scripture from Revelation and he told me to close it up as he did not understand it and refused to refer to it in his sermons.
Oh my!!!!! How could you not at least know some basics from Revelation? How could he start to be a Christian much less not teach his congregation probably the most important book in the Bible at this time in history?
We have to know as much as possible as it means our futures are in the balance.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75So no, I have no doubt that our understanding of the Bible now is wrong
From the early years the Watchtower Society did not always have a correct understanding of some points in the Bible. Again the scripture I just quoted explains that would happen. But as time has past it has become clearer and most of the scriptures, especially with the prophycies that relate to our time period are clearer.
So no, I have no doubt that o ...[text shortened]... ess you could say from the Bible. Most religions never encourage ones to even open their Bibles.
Is that a yes or no? I'm confused.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75because it is metaphorical and every interpretation is subjective, that's why. that priest had the balls to admit that he may not understand a text and since he certainly cannot verify it, he would rather not say anything about it at all.
No it simple means understanding scriptures that one may not now. What else could that scripture mean about the light geting brighter?
I talked to a Catholic priest many years ago that had his own congregation. I was talkng about a scripture from Revelation and he told me to close it up as he did not understand it and refused to refer to it in his serm ...[text shortened]... me in history?
We have to know as much as possible as it means our futures are in the balance.
We have to know as much as possible as it means our futures are in the balance
but don't you understand that in order to have a 100% accurate bible we must all have the same understanding of it. and since you yourself have admitted that you adjust your knowledge of the bible, then logically it concludes that at some point you have the wrong idea about it. and as such, how do you know that you don't have the wrong view about it now? perhaps about the flood. some christians have reached the conclusion that the flood is not real and is metaphorical. why is your interpretation better than theirs? and who is to say your own interpretation about the flood will not change in the future?
11 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by ZahlanziThe only example I can us is a puzzle. That's what the Bible has been for many over the centuries. Some parts easy to understand and others not so easy. It isn't easy and yes mistakes will be made but you have to try an with God's help it can be done.
because it is metaphorical and every interpretation is subjective, that's why. that priest had the balls to admit that he may not understand a text and since he certainly cannot verify it, he would rather not say anything about it at all.
[b]We have to know as much as possible as it means our futures are in the balance
but don't you understand tha irs? and who is to say your own interpretation about the flood will not change in the future?[/b]
The Bible is also an instruction book of many things and the most important it's a guide to get ones who love God to get to know him and to know how to survive this world and how to get into the paradise the Bible talks about. That's putting it in a very small nutshell. There is obviously alot more to that.
But..... when you have a scripture that says this at Prov 3:5, that would emply that we would have to lean on the understanding of someone or something else, but certianly not on our own.
As far as Revelation and what it all means? It's there for a reason. It's very hard to believe it's there to just confuse us as that would serve no purpose at all and would not be consistant with the rest of the Bible. So it's not just for us individually to make out of it whatever we can. It's all explainable and makes very logical sence.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75but you agree that right now, you do not understand revelation? do you agree it may be metaphorical, that the oceans won't literally turn to blood?
The only example I can us is a puzzle. That's what the Bible has been for many over the centuries. Some parts easy to understand and others not so easy. It isn't easy and yes mistakes will be made but you have to try an with God's help it can be done.
The Bible is also an instruction book of many things and the most important it's a guide to get ones w ...[text shortened]... to make out of it whatever we can. It's all explainable and makes very logical sence.
couldn't it be possible that the flood is also metaphorical? that you only think you understand it but you need more time to "adjust" your knowledge?
It isn't easy and yes mistakes will be made
then why are you so sure you are not making a mistake with the flood story? what if god is really giving you help in understanding it but the help comes in the form of evolutionists? what if god's purpose is to tell you he lied (maybe he had no choice) about the flood?
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by ZahlanziEvolution goes contrary to the Bible. And Jesus himself spoke of the flood. If it wasn't real I think he would have mentioned that.
but you agree that right now, you do not understand revelation? do you agree it may be metaphorical, that the oceans won't literally turn to blood?
couldn't it be possible that the flood is also metaphorical? that you only think you understand it but you need more time to "adjust" your knowledge?
[b]It isn't easy and yes mistakes will be made
...[text shortened]... ts? what if god's purpose is to tell you he lied (maybe he had no choice) about the flood?[/b]
And time and more research and prayer, honest prayer that the bible teaches us to do is what he uses to answer our questions. He does want us to search for answers with the thought in mind that we do inventually find them. He does not expect us to go on forever without knowing them.
The traps that so many fall into is a result of this: John 12:31. Eph 2:2. John 16:12. Also who was it that tempted Jesus and offered him all the Kingdoms of the world? Satan, and he could do that becuase he rules them. The point is this. He has his fingers into every bit of this world and he has been able to confuse so much of mankind and their beliefs, that as many humans as there are on this planet, you have just about that many opinions of what's right or wrong, if theres a God or not, did we evolve or not, did Jesus exist or not, etc..