NT acceptance of homosexuality

Originally posted by @fmf
No, I said, taking the theist "sin" based view that homosexuality is immoral as a given, for the sake of the discussion, as one can with the theist-secular moral overlap when it comes to murder, what moral basis (aside from the theist "sin" based view) can you lay out for the assertion that homosexuality is immoral? You can do it for murder, but not for homosexuality. Why is that?

Putting aside God is by definition immoral.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Take a day off assh0le.

Please cite the verse.

I don't recall that one.

Originally posted by @eladar
Putting aside God is by definition immoral.

Well, I understand your religious fervour, and that's fine by me. In the service of moral discourse, are you really unable to formulate a moral argument that condemns murder, for example, without reference to a supernatural power? It seems to be a strange intellectual limitation for you to have to bear.

Originally posted by @fmf
Well, I understand your religious fervour, and that's fine by me. In the service of moral discourse, are you really unable to formulate a moral argument that condemns murder, for example, without reference to a supernatural power? It seems to be a strange intellectual limitation for you to have to bear.

I understand your religious fervor. Your beliefs have you so blinded I doubt you can recognise your beliefs as religious beliefs.

You are so caught up in what you call morals aa being absolutely true that you demand others to view your beliefs as true too. All must bow down to your beliefs.

I think you need to bow down to mine. If you disagree then perhaps, just perhaps you can see what I am saying.

But then your arrogance may have no end.

Originally posted by @eladar
I understand your religious fervor. Your beliefs have you so blinded I doubt you can recognise your beliefs as religious beliefs.

I am not religious. I do not believe in or worship a supernatural being.

Originally posted by @fmf
I am not religious. I do not believe in or worship a supernatural being.

As I said...

Originally posted by @eladar
[b]You are so caught up in what you call morals aa being absolutely true that you demand others to view your beliefs as true too. All must bow down to your beliefs./b]

Not at all. I understand the moral underpinning you use for your moral condemnation of homosexuality. I understand it. I could argue in its favour in a debate if I was called on to do so. I can do this without subscribing to it. You must surely recognize that there is morality and moral discourse beyond your own religion, right? In that arena you ought to be able to argue that murder is morally unsound even without reference to supernatural things, right? What would be you argument that homosexuality is immoral - I say immoral, not moral - in that arena?

Originally posted by @eladar
I think you need to bow down to mine. If you disagree then perhaps, just perhaps you can see what I am saying.

No one is asking you to bow down to anything. And I understand your perception of "sin" completely. Are you unable to argue that murder is morally unsound behaviour without referring to your god figure?

Originally posted by @fmf
Not at all. I understand the moral underpinning you use for your moral condemnation of homosexuality. I understand it. I could argue in its favour in a debate if I was called on to do so. I can do this without subscribing to it. You must surely recognize that there is morality and moral discourse beyond your own religion, right? In that arena you ought to be ab ...[text shortened]... argument that homosexuality is immoral - I say [b]immoral, not moral - in that arena?[/b]

You still can't understand what I am saying.

Originally posted by @eladar
You still can't understand what I am saying.

This is a generic cop-out. You are blanking out what I am saying, what I am conceding, and what I am asking. Are you able to argue that murder is morally unsound behaviour without referring to your god figure or have your religious beliefs rendered you unable to do this?

Originally posted by @fmf
This is a generic cop-out. You are blanking out what I am saying, what I am conceding, and what I am asking. Are you able to argue that murder is morally unsound behaviour without referring to your god figure or have your religious beliefs rendered you unable to do this?

I am sure you see it that way, but that is your failing.

Originally posted by @eladar
I am sure you see it that way, but that is your failing.

Are you able to argue that murder is morally unsound behaviour without referring to your god figure, or do you find yourself unable to do this?

Originally posted by @fmf
Are you able to argue that murder is morally unsound behaviour without referring to your god figure, or do you find yourself unable to do this?

You really are stuck with your own point of view and having others bow down to it.

What you call moral, I call immoral. So why would I bother trying to prove something moral using an immoral standard?

Originally posted by @eladar
You really are stuck with your own point of view and having others bow down to it.

I'm not asking you to bow down to anything. Do you really not have any argument as to the immorality of murder without a supernatural angle?

Originally posted by @eladar
So why would I bother trying to prove something moral using an immoral standard?

You are not being asked to "prove something moral". You are being asked if you can show how murder is immoral without recourse to talking about your god figure.