Spirituality
27 Jan 19
04 Feb 19
@secondson saidThere has been no contradiction whatsoever. I have acknowledged the positive effect religious belief can have on people's lives.
Can you not see how you've contradicted yourself in your last several posts? Out of one side of you mouth you claim to be so concerned with your fellow man, and out of the other you belittle his faith in God and deride the concept of eternal life.
04 Feb 19
@fmf saidIt's a question of origin. Latin was around long before Wikipedia. Just goes to show how that by redefining terms one can distort reality and justify their mental gymnastics and form a world view contrary to established norms.
I am happy enough to just take my definition of "agnostic atheist" from wikipedia and not go via Latin.
It's like when I hear someone say there are no absolute truths. Why? Because they say so? The obvious seems to go right over their head.
@fmf saidAnd then say out of the other side of your mouth, ".., my interest lies in the moral issues that arise from the distortion of intrgrity and intellect when religious people make superstitious assertions related to "eternal life"."
There has been no contradiction whatsoever. I have acknowledged the positive effect religious belief can have on people's lives.
It's a contradiction.
@secondson saidBeing an agnostic atheist doesn't involve any "mental gymnastics".
It's a question of origin. Latin was around long before Wikipedia. Just goes to show how that by redefining terms one can distort reality and justify their mental gymnastics and form a world view contrary to established norms.
@secondson saidNo. It's not a contradiction. I am interested in the effect superstition codified into religion has on people while at the same acknowledging the positive effect religion can have on people's lives.
And then say out of the other side of your mouth, ".., my interest lies in the moral issues that arise from the distortion of intrgrity and intellect when religious people make superstitious assertions related to "eternal life"."
It's a contradiction.
@secondson saidReligious people can be as sincere and as certain - and as adamant - as they want about their god or gods and their doctrines and their claims about themselves but there are no "objective" or "absolute" truths about supernatural things. When it comes to supernatural things everything is subjective, everything is the subject of conjecture, and every claim is aspirational.
It's like when I hear someone say there are no absolute truths. Why? Because they say so? The obvious seems to go right over their head.
04 Feb 19
@fmf saidIf the answer I gave won't suffice, then neither will a yes or no.
A yes or no will suffice.
The Bible makes it perfectly clear that the saved have eternal life, and by the way, gives ample descriptions of what that means and what heaven will be like for those that go there; and the Bible makes it perfectly clear that the damned will be punished, and gives ample descriptions of what that will be like, weeping, gnashing, torment and outer darkness where their worm dieth not.
Hard to imagine that isn't it? Thing is though, I don't really get a sense from the narrative that there is any physical discomfort.
But if it were me, and this is just my opinion, that had to suffer throughout eternity in outer darkness, weeping and gnashing, torment where my worm didn't die, I think I'd rather be in such excruciating pain that I couldn't think about how much I would regret not going to heaven and anguishing over everything in my memories and the missed opportunity to trust Christ for life eternal instead of the second death.
04 Feb 19
@secondson saidI think I can quite fairly paraphrase Christians such as sonship and KellyJay as believing that every human being deserves to be tormented in burning flames for eternity and the only way they can be saved is through belief in Jesus' sacrifice and forgiveness. It's interesting how you prevaricated.
If the answer I gave won't suffice, then neither will a yes or no.
The Bible makes it perfectly clear that the saved have eternal life, and by the way, gives ample descriptions of what that means and what heaven will be like for those that go there; and the Bible makes it perfectly clear that the damned will be punished, and gives ample descriptions of what that will be ...[text shortened]... my memories and the missed opportunity to trust Christ for life eternal instead of the second death.
@SecondSon
How do you answer the idea - put about by "new theists" among others - that this concept of an afterlife is simply a supernatural codifying of what it might take for humanity to survive in the long term - without say blowing each other up or ravaging the planet to our permanent detriment?
04 Feb 19
@ragwort saidWell, if I understand the inference, "the idea" is etherealistic[sic], defying the practical application of biblical truth.
@SecondSon
How do you answer the idea - put about by "new theists" among others - that this concept of an afterlife is simply a supernatural codifying of what it might take for humanity to survive in the long term - without say blowing each other up or ravaging the planet to our permanent detriment?
For example: in the resurrection our bodies will have supernatural attributes, such as being able to travel at the speed of thought passing through from one dimension to another, yet we will have bodies as real as the one Jesus was raised from the dead in. The very body He was crucified in, but without the blood.
We will have spirit drive bodies, not blood driven. I can provide biblical evidence for that fact. If you want me to.
Bet your life on this: Jesus will return and establish the kingdom of God on the earth for a thousand years. The earth will be filled with the knowledge of God and there will be peace. It will be a theocracy with one King whose term will never expire.
Then the earth and the heavens will melt with fervent heat and God will create a new heaven and a new earth, right after the judgment of the dead, and Satan and death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire never to be seen or heard from again.
Then we, the family of God, will spend eternity learning of the grace and knowledge and love of God "in the ages to come" in the new heavens and new earth.
It's all in the Bible. Solid, real and true.
04 Feb 19
@secondson saidThanks for the reply.
Well, if I understand the inference, "the idea" is defying the practical application of biblical truth.
05 Feb 19
@fmf saidI don't think you can fairly paraphrase Christians, you cannot even share what the gospel is, let along what results of sin are and why we are in danger of Hell.
I think I can quite fairly paraphrase Christians such as sonship and KellyJay as believing that every human being deserves to be tormented in burning flames for eternity and the only way they can be saved is through belief in Jesus' sacrifice and forgiveness. It's interesting how you prevaricated.
05 Feb 19
@kellyjay saidAsk your fellow Christians to "share what the gospel is".
I don't think you can fairly paraphrase Christians, you cannot even share what the gospel is, let along what results of sin are and why we are in danger of Hell.
Why the deflection?
Do you believe that every human being deserves "damnation" and the only way they can be saved is through belief in Jesus' sacrifice and forgiveness? Or not?
05 Feb 19
@fmf saidNo deflection I was reading this and saw you put my name in here while talking to someone else, and were not saying things I thought were true. You refused to talk about the gospel in how you used to believe it, and what you do is question the reality around judgment with things that are not quite right, which shows you have either no idea what you are talking about, or you do but choose to twist truth.
Ask your fellow Christians to "share what the gospel is".
Why the deflection?
Do you believe that every human being deserves "damnation" and the only way they can be saved is through belief in Jesus' sacrifice and forgiveness? Or not?
I don't have to ask a fellow Christian to share the gospel they do it without me asking.