04 Mar 14
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Originally posted by FabianFnasToo tired to continue. Negative to your premise: "that man is superior over woman"; the genders complement.
Filtering out the unnecessary in your posting, I come to a conclusion that you don't believe in equality between sexes, that you in fact believes that man is superior over woman, right? I just want this to be confirmed.
Evelyn was far superior to me in many ways. I'm so grateful God gave us a twenty five year honeymoon.
Postscript: Evelyn's Mother was of Swedish Ancestry; her Yankee Farmer Father was descended from British Royalty.
04 Mar 14
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyBut when big issues in family are to be resolved, you have the last word? Of the sole reason that you are a man? All because of some bible verses written in a time and in a culture where they actually thought that the man is superior over the woman?
Too tired to continue. Negative to your premise: "that man is superior over woman"; the genders complement.
Evelyn was far superior to me in many ways. I'm so grateful God gave us a twenty five year honeymoon.
You cannot think that there are good female pastors, preachers, priest, presidents? That god rather talks to men than women?
04 Mar 14
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou equated "parents for the family" with "the husband for marriage" (both being "the primary authority" ).
Too tired to continue. Negative to your premise: "that man is superior over woman"; the genders complement.
Evelyn was far superior to me in many ways. I'm so grateful God gave us a twenty five year honeymoon.
Please, after you've slept, explain the difference between these two forms of "primary authority".
04 Mar 14
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I don't believe that man always is the authority in family.
I've seen to many "good husbands" beating up their wife with the bible in one hand.
I've seen to many "good fathers" beating up their children with the bible in one hand.
"Fear God and fear me! Or else...!"
Originally posted by FabianFnasI saw statistics recently that in the US, the Bible Belt States have a far higher incidence of wife beating (domestic violence, also called IPV, Intimate Partner Violence) than the national average, due to pastors preaching from the pulpit that the husband is the head of the house, and the wife must be subordinate and obedient.
I don't believe that man always is the authority in family.
I've seen to many "good husbands" beating up their wife with the bible in one hand.
I've seen to many "good fathers" beating up their children with the bible in one hand.
"Fear God and fear me! Or else...!"
Because of this teaching, the abused wife has no place to turn for help. The abuse is HER FAULT!
ðŸ˜
04 Mar 14
Originally posted by CalJustRecently, i have met a few people that are into the bdsm lifestyle. They use the scripture to justify their "pleasures". The husband is subject to God and the wives are subject to the husband.
I saw statistics recently that in the US, the Bible Belt States have a far higher incidence of wife beating (domestic violence, also called IPV, Intimate Partner Violence) than the national average, due to pastors preaching from the pulpit that the husband is the head of the house, and the wife must be subordinate and obedient.
Because of this teaching, the abused wife has no place to turn for help. The abuse is HER FAULT!
ðŸ˜
I did ask them why it was that God, in creating a woman, took from a rib of Adam versus say the foot. Never did get an answer. ha, ha.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"Sin" is not comparable to "wrong-doing". The definition of sin as I understand it is to deviate from the expectations of us on the part of some deity - a derivative of some vague notion of Christian "God" whose properties and traits vary with respect to the human who Discusses it.
Lack of belief in god I well understand; news to me that you don't believe in sin. I did hesitate to answer your questions because to so honestly would entail reference to God. If you believe human beings are in a state of sinless perfection, why are maximum security penitentiaries at full occupancy? Why do communities have law enforcement officers? Ple ...[text shortened]... erence for the purpose of continuing later this week. Meanwhile, let's return to the OP. Thanks.
There may be some overlap between these terms but there is also much separation too. Indeed, for some people it is believe that the union of two homosexual males or females is a grave sin, whilst I and many others will not think this is a wrong doing. Moreover, recalling your OP, even the morality of your god is just a subjective standard (sourced either from human imagination of "God" or its own arbitrary rules of "right and wrong"😉
Not seeing the legitimacy of "sin" being synonymous with wrong-doing does not mean we don't acknowledge immorality. We just don't frame the notion around your god.
04 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyCome on, GB. Get real. You brought up the word "sin" in a post strongly relating to your belief in God, you are known to be a theist and more precisely a Christian and this is the Spiritualy forum.
Lack of belief in god I well understand; news to me that you don't believe in sin. I did hesitate to answer your questions because to so honestly would entail reference to God. If you believe human beings are in a state of sinless perfection, why are maximum security penitentiaries at full occupancy? Why do communities have law enforcement officers? Ple ...[text shortened]... erence for the purpose of continuing later this week. Meanwhile, let's return to the OP. Thanks.
Furthermore, I specifically said "You know we lack a belief in god and therefore also in what you regard as sin".
It should be quite obvious what I meant when I said I don't believe in sin.
Do I believe humans are perfect? No, we are a product of evolution and evolution is not a perfect process. A perfect process is something that one would expect to originate from an omnipotent, perfectly intelligent being. The result of evolution is not intelligently guided, it is merely making the best of a possibly bad situation.
There are people that we might refer to as being "bad". These people generally do not share the morals of the majority.
But the presence of a small number of bad people certainly doesn't mean that all people are bad and will attempt to destroy humanity.
Please explain again why the whole of humanity will attempt to destroy humanity when it is given the chance.
04 Mar 14
Originally posted by CalJustI actually read in a fundie Christian publication that it's up to the other male family members to go beat up the husband if he's hitting his wife. It recognized the practical problems with this 'protection' and ended up being some kind of hilarious nostalgic trip back to the 'good old days' when families didn't live so far apart and/or weren't so disjointed/dysfunctional.
I saw statistics recently that in the US, the Bible Belt States have a far higher incidence of wife beating (domestic violence, also called IPV, Intimate Partner Violence) than the national average, due to pastors preaching from the pulpit that the husband is the head of the house, and the wife must be subordinate and obedient.
Because of this teaching, the abused wife has no place to turn for help. The abuse is HER FAULT!
ðŸ˜
04 Mar 14
Originally posted by Agerg"We just don't frame the notion around your god." -Agerg I appreciate your unemotional play of mind.
"Sin" is not comparable to "wrong-doing". The definition of sin as I understand it is to deviate from the expectations of us on the part of some deity - a derivative of some vague notion of Christian "God" whose properties and traits vary with respect to the human who Discusses it.
There may be some overlap between these terms but there is also much separat ...[text shortened]... g does not mean we don't acknowledge immorality. We just don't frame the notion around your god.
May I ask what does "frame" your present view of the Original Post Topics and the world at large?
04 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"Appears we're at an impasse for the nonce. I've got a doctor's appointment in the morning and errands to run but will give thought to your questions and our lack of a common frame of reference for the purpose of continuing later this week. Meanwhile, let's return to the OP. Thanks."
Lack of belief in god I well understand; news to me that you don't believe in sin. I did hesitate to answer your questions because to so honestly would entail reference to God. If you believe human beings are in a state of sinless perfection, why are maximum security penitentiaries at full occupancy? Why do communities have law enforcement officers? Ple ...[text shortened]... erence for the purpose of continuing later this week. Meanwhile, let's return to the OP. Thanks.
It's become abundantly clear that a wide array of off topic issues and anecdotal stories have complicated the challenge of restoring this thread to its original "One Remaining Question". Nonetheless, I'll keep the promise italicized above. -Bob
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04 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbySomewhere above you say let's get back to the OP.
[b]One Remaining Question
Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?[/b]
What if someone sees no accessible final arbiter or ultimate authority on morality and truth? (Given that science is provisional, it wouldn't be there).
IOW, isn't there a presumption in the question, like asking someone who their favorite team is, assumes they have one?
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyOriginally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]One Remaining Question
Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?
Original Post Re-Phrased:
"In whom or what do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter
or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?"[/b]
One Remaining Question
Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?
Original Post Re-Phrased:
"In whom or what do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter
or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?"
"Myself."
"Observe and study."
"Just seeing what works in improving peoples lives and does the least harm."
"I do not look to a 'whom' I look to logic, and the scientific method, and my own rationality."
"It doesn't matter whether I look up, down, sideways, inwards, or outwards for the answers. Point is, no matter where I may get them, I sign off on them, or not."
"Someone with better grammar skills."
"Erm...we don't!???"
________________________________________
Isolating the topic question pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)