05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThe only consensus is that there is no consensus.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]One Remaining Question
Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?
[quote]Original Post Re-Phrased:
"In whom or what do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter
or ultimate authority in matt ...[text shortened]... ion pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)
I tend not to like the word 'final' in the premise. 'Final' means that no more questioning can take place. And what are we to do with moral issues that our ancestors rarely faced? Say, abortion. Or removing a feeding tube from a terminal patient. Sure, people try to apply their favorite Holy Scriptures, but the widely divergent views they get leave them as deprived of a consensus as any of the skeptics.
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05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"...seven answers..."
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]One Remaining Question
Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?
[quote]Original Post Re-Phrased:
"In whom or what do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter
or ultimate authority in matt ...[text shortened]... ion pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)
I said, What if someone sees no accessible final arbiter or ultimate authority on morality and truth? So I will strengthen it: I see no such arbiter/authority as you seem to be asking about. We are on our own.
05 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyConsensus is not required for matters of personal volition. I like the colour Red, my sister prefers blue - why should we seek consensus on the matter of favorite colour?
Isolating the topic question pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)
Similarly, whether or not one looks to an authority for matters of morality and whom or what that authority is, is a matter of personal choice. If however one does look to an authority, then we could discuss how reliable that authority is, and what the wisdom of looking to it might or might not be.
But your OP does not ask 'are you wise to look to a given authority' it merely asks which authority you look to (and incorrectly presumes not only that we do all look to an authority, but also an ultimate authority). As such, all answers, if honestly given, are correct answers.
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by JS357JS, I'll add "We are on our own." to the "morality" question list.
"...seven answers..."
I said, What if someone sees no accessible final arbiter or ultimate authority on morality and truth? So I will strengthen it: I see no such arbiter/authority as you seem to be asking about. We are on our own.
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadYou're in agreement with SG?
Consensus is not required for matters of personal volition. I like the colour Red, my sister prefers blue - why should we seek consensus on the matter of favorite colour?
Similarly, whether or not one looks to an authority for matters of morality and whom or what that authority is, is a matter of personal choice. If however one does look to an authority, ...[text shortened]... , but also an ultimate authority). As such, all answers, if honestly given, are correct answers.
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI was merely saying that your 'no consensus' comment was poorly phrased. The OP does not ask 'who should you look to' it asks 'who do you look to'.
You're in agreement with SG?
The lack of consensus is on the question of 'who should you look to'.
And I actually think that there is consensus that 'you shouldn't', the lack of consensus is rather on the question of what you should do as an alternative - but even there, there is not as much difference of opinion as it might appear.
05 Mar 14
Dear Bob, I think I've posed too many questions that you haven't answered yet. Do you avoid them or have I just missed the answers?
Originally posted by FabianFnas, in page 1
When you ask "Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?", then the answer cannot be any supernatural entity, some god, or something/someone else non-human or super-human, right?
What you ask for is a person, like Barak Obama, Nelson Mandela, or Mahatma Gandhi or someone alike, right?
Originally posted by FabianFnas, in page 3
Filtering out the unnecessary in your posting, I come to a conclusion that you don't believe in equality between sexes, that you in fact believes that man is superior over woman, right? I just want this to be confirmed.
Originally posted by FabianFnas, in page 4
But when big issues in family are to be resolved, you have the last word? Of the sole reason that you are a man? All because of some bible verses written in a time and in a culture where they actually thought that the man is superior over the woman?
You cannot think that there are good female pastors, preachers, priest, presidents? That god rather talks to men than women?
Originally posted by FabianFnas, in page 4
I don't believe that man always is the authority in family.
I've seen to many "good husbands" beating up their wife with the bible in one hand.
I've seen to many "good fathers" beating up their children with the bible in one hand.
"Fear God and fear me! Or else...!"
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by FabianFnas"Isolating the topic question pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)"
Dear Bob, I think I've posed too many questions that you haven't answered yet. Do you avoid them or have I just missed the answers?
Originally posted by FabianFnas, in page 1
[b]When you ask "Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?", then the answer cannot be an ...[text shortened]... beating up their children with the bible in one hand.
"Fear God and fear me! Or else...!"[/b]
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyYou got 7 responses. I am not convinced that they are different answers, I think that we do more or less have a consensus. I think all 7 responses say roughly:
"Isolating the topic question pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)"
1. We do not look to any ultimate authority.
2. We use our brains to figure out the correct course of action for any given situation. (note that some answers were broader but with reference to the non-morality part of the OP).
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by twhitehead.... do each of you who have contributed answers agree in principle with twhitehead's summary?
You got 7 responses. I am not convinced that they are different answers, I think that we do more or less have a consensus. I think all 7 responses say roughly:
1. We do not look to any ultimate authority.
2. We use our brains to figure out the correct course of action for any given situation. (note that some answers were broader but with reference to the non-morality part of the OP).
05 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby"The Definition of Morality" (First published Wed Apr 17, 2002; substantive revision Mon Mar 14, 2011)
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]One Remaining Question
Whom do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter or ultimate authority in matters of morality and absolute truth?
[quote]Original Post Re-Phrased:
"In whom or what do atheists look up to or regard as the final arbiter
or ultimate authority in matt ...[text shortened]... ion pertaining to "morality", there appear to be seven answers. Any Consensus? (to be continued)
"The term “morality” can be used either
1. descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or,
a. some other group, such as a religion, or
b. accepted by an individual for her own behavior or
2. normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons."
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/
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"Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior"😉 is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong).[citation needed] The philosophy of morality is ethics.[citation needed] A moral code is a system of morality (according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. Morality may also be specifically synonymous with "goodness" or "rightness." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. opposition to that which is good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.[1][2][3] An example of a moral code is the Golden Rule which states that, "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself."[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality
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Here are two impartial definitions/explanations of the word: "morality" in the hope that we can arrive at a consensus. Then we'll move on to "final arbiter"; "ultimate authority"; "absolute truth"; and the additional questions that have been asked.
05 Mar 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyGenerally, yes. As to the first point ("We do not look to any ultimate authority" )I would add that we do not believe there is an ultimately authority, hence looking at one is pointless.
.... do each of you who have contributed answers agree in principle with twhitehead's summary?
But even if you believe in an "ultimate authority", eventually you will have to decide for yourself what decisions you make. Because it is your own consciousness that you have to answer to.
There, you've gotten plenty of answers now. Now it's your turn to respond to the various answers and questions you've gotten.
Don't let us down again.
05 Mar 14
Originally posted by Great King Rat7 responses; 2 consensus replies. Let's give the other five one day to respond so that we can nail it once and for all.
Generally, yes. As to the first point ("We do not look to any ultimate authority" )I would add that we do not believe there is an ultimately authority, hence looking at one is pointless.
But even if you believe in an "ultimate authority", eventually you will have to decide for yourself what decisions you make. Because it is your own consciousness t ...[text shortened]... turn to respond to the various answers and questions you've gotten.
Don't let us down again.