Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ

Originally posted by Rajk999
Boy .. you are a real drama queen. I think you need to find yourself and nice man and settle down KM.

This is the kind of thing we have been pointing out to you, you speak the
words yet you do not seem to have the fruit of the Spirit. It is like you are
mouthing words you know are right, but don't know what they really
mean.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
This is the kind of thing we have been pointing out to you, you speak the
words yet you do not seem to have the fruit of the Spirit. It is like you are
mouthing words you know are right, but don't know what they really
mean.
Kelly

Im giving out some good free advice. How is that contrary to the 'fruit of the spirit'. Same advice to you. You people are drama queens. My suggestion to you ladies is to settle down. Too much estrogen in your system seems to be the problem.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im giving out some good free advice. How is that contrary to the 'fruit of the spirit'. Same advice to you. You people are drama queens. My suggestion to you ladies is to settle down. Too much estrogen in your system seems to be the problem.

Insulting someone while you are 'giving' your good advice sort of hides your
loving kindness you are I'm sure trying to display. You should work on letting your
little light shine right now it is hidden behind your disrespectful and mean
spiritedness. I would also suggest you figure out how to tell males from females
too while you are at it.
Kelly

Originally posted by Rajk999
He is saying more than that.

I agree.

Originally posted by boonon
I agree.

Here is what I think the passage is saying :

Paul is writing this at the time when the Jews were giving the Christian Gentiles a hard time because the Jews felt that they had a monoploy on the Kingdom of God .. Much like these days when 'born again' Christians think they are the only true Christians.

1. V 1-6 : God will judge both Jews an Gentiles, and his judgment is fair. He will judge all people according to their works.

2. V 7-11 : Those who do good works get eternal life and those who do not obey the truth get damnation. It does not matter whether they are Jews or Gentiles. God does not respect the person. God looks at good deeds and the heart.

3. V 12 : Those who have sinned under the Law of Moses will be judged by the law of Moses. Those who have sinned under the Law of Christ will be judged by the Law of Christ.

4. V 13 : Those who do what the law says are just, not those who hear the law.

5. V 14-16 : Those who have no law and who do good works using their conscience as their guide, will be judged according the law by which they live.

*************************

#1&2 contradict those Christians who claim that they will escape judgment for their sins. Or that they will get salvation no matter what sins they commit.

The entire passage contradicts those who say they are saved by faith alone and good works is not important.

There is a suggestion here that Christ will judge all of mankind according to their works.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here is what I think the passage is saying :

Paul is writing this at the time when the Jews were giving the Christian Gentiles a hard time because the Jews felt that they had a monoploy on the Kingdom of God .. Much like these days when 'born again' Christians think they are the only true Christians.

1. V 1-6 : God will judge both Jews an Gentiles, an ...[text shortened]...

There is a suggestion here that Christ will judge all of mankind according to their works.

Presumably Paul wrote in Greek, where the word that was translated to "gentiles" was "ethnos." There are other translations of "ethnos" in the Bible, that have different connotations, but apparently none of them means "Christian."

So there would not be any of the "Christian Gentiles" you mention. There would be Christians that had been Jews, and Christians who had been gentiles. Gentiles, were, in fact, "not" Jews or Christians.

http://www.sheldonemrylibrary.com/Gentile%20-%20Ewing.pdf

The point is, that Paul said that non-Christians of two sorts, the Jewish sort and the non-Jewish sort, would be judged (at least in part) on their works, but, in this passage, at least, it does not mean that Christians will be judged on their works. It is a logical nicety perhaps, but it means that God (Jesus) will not have to look at the works of Christians -- of course their works would be adequate, if judged, their being Christians will be necessary and sufficient for this conclusion, so their works need not be judged.

The above is offered for correction, if there are other passages that clear this up.

Originally posted by moon1969
Did Ghandi go to heaven? While he recognized jesus as a path to heaven, he personally rejected jesus as savior.

You should ask Rob Bell that one.

Originally posted by moon1969
Did Ghandi go to heaven? While he recognized jesus as a path to heaven, he personally rejected jesus as savior.

What would quailfy one going to heaven? Did he meet those?

One thing that is not taught anywhere in the Bible is that all "good" people go to heaven.
There are certian qualifications and needs that would allow one to go to heaven and most will not meet that but would still qualify for life here on earth in the future.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here is what I think the passage is saying :

Paul is writing this at the time when the Jews were giving the Christian Gentiles a hard time because the Jews felt that they had a monoploy on the Kingdom of God .. Much like these days when 'born again' Christians think they are the only true Christians.

1. V 1-6 : God will judge both Jews an Gentiles, an ...[text shortened]...

There is a suggestion here that Christ will judge all of mankind according to their works.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it
is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV)

P.S. As you see here, the the judgement of works has nothing to do with being saved.

Originally posted by RJHinds
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it
is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Ephesians 2:8-9 NKJV)

P.S. As you see here, the the judgement of works has nothing to do with being saved.

"...the judgement of works has nothing to do with being saved."

Good works will be present in the record of the faithful, but the presence of faith is seen directly, and its presence, is all that need be judged. There is no need to open or examine the record book of those judged faithful. It would be silly to say that God needs to examine the record of those He has already judged faithful, to see if they are faithful. It would be saying God cannot see faithfulness directly.

How's that, theologically speaking?

Originally posted by JS357
"...the judgement of works has nothing to do with being saved."

Good works will be present in the record of the faithful, but the presence of faith is seen [b]directly, and its presence, is all that need be judged. There is no need to open or examine the record book of those judged faithful. It would be silly to say that God needs to examine the record ...[text shortened]... would be saying God cannot see faithfulness directly.

How's that, theologically speaking?[/b]

http://www.christiandataresources.com/judgment.htm

Originally posted by JS357
"...the judgement of works has nothing to do with being saved."

Good works will be present in the record of the faithful, but the presence of faith is seen [b]directly, and its presence, is all that need be judged. There is no need to open or examine the record book of those judged faithful. It would be silly to say that God needs to examine the record ...[text shortened]... would be saying God cannot see faithfulness directly.

How's that, theologically speaking?[/b]

There are those that claim to be faithful and their faith is demonstrated by their works. Those are the Christians that will be judged faithful. Not all Christians fall in that category

Originally posted by Rajk999
There are those that claim to be faithful and their faith is demonstrated by their works. Those are the Christians that will be judged faithful. Not all Christians fall in that category

My point is that the Christians will be those that ARE faithful, not those that merely claim to be. You seem, here, to say that God will see as Christian, all those who claim to be, and then rule them in and out, by their works.

In James, it is said that "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only." This seems to support the view you describe, at first glance.

But Ephesians says "For by grace you have been saved through faith, ..."

This does not say that (1) our faith will be judged by God as adequate or not, and then (2) our works will be judged by God as adequate or not. God need not look at works. We humans may need to look for signs of faith by looking at our works, to make a sort of judgement on ourselves, but God would not need to judge faith and then judge works. Anyone he sees as having faith, will have works to match, and He knows this. The works need not be judged; they will be in accord with, and manifest, the faith.

This may be a subtle difference, but many Christians seem to think it is an important difference. It does imply that there can be good works without Christian faith, which some Christians seem to believe is not possible.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I totally agree. Ephesians starts off with a detailed explanation of the concept of grace. We are saved by the death of Christ. Its a gift of God that we did not deserve. But that 'saved is not the saved that many Christians interpret it to mean. That saved is saved from the sin of Adam. Adam sinned and we all inherited sin... 'the wages of sin is death' We ...[text shortened]... chief of which is to love your neighbour as yourself.

That is wrong in my opinion.

Actually this is were we fall short but it's true that how can we say we love God? If we can't even love our neighbor?



Manny

Originally posted by KellyJay
You are very insulting, I suggest you go back and look at how you treat others no need to quote since most of your posts carry a very nasty tone.
Kelly

Precisely.

I guess he's not too into following Christ if he can't even show love for his Christian brothers. This is the exact same thing I called Robbie out on a few months back.