pope caving in ?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Are all your opinions undefendable?

Not every opinion needs to be defended. Not every person we disagree with needs to be persuaded to change their opinion. If I perceive that Christian teaching has homosexual sex as being "sinful" and you perceive that Christian teaching has homosexual sex as not being "sinful", it's fine. There is no imperative that these opinions be "defended" if the aim was only to find out what these opinions are.

@fmf said
I don't need to prove that my opinion is right or that yours is wrong.

If you reference Christian teachings expect to be asked to provide those teachings if you wish to be taken seriously.

@fmf said
Oh, so. Wait. You DO think that homosexual sex and abortion are "sinful" or you DON'T?

I think you have failed to evidence that Christian teaching views abortion as sinful. Indeed, you have provided nothing to support this claim.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
If you reference Christian teachings expect to be asked to provide those teachings if you wish to be taken seriously.

If you don't want to take my opinions about what walking the Christian walk actually entails [when it comes to abstaining from perceived "sins"] seriously, so be it.

@fmf said
Not every opinion needs to be defended. Not every person we disagree with needs to be persuaded to change their opinion. If I perceive that Christian teaching has homosexual sex as being "sinful" and you perceive that Christian teaching has homosexual sex as not being "sinful", it's fine. There is no imperative that these opinions be "defended" if the aim was only to find out what these opinions are.

Oh, so it was a general perception you had that Christian teaching viewed abortion as sinful, nothing specific you can share with the thread?

@fmf said
If you don't want to take my opinions about what walking the Christian walk actually entails [when it comes to abstaining from perceived "sins"] seriously, so be it.

Opinions need to be based on something.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think you have failed to evidence that Christian teaching views abortion as sinful. Indeed, you have provided nothing to support this claim.

If you don’t think that Christian teaching, beliefs, principles, doctrines, tenets hold that abortion and homosexuality are "sinful", then I accept that that is what you believe. I will take your word for it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Opinions need to be based on something.

If you don’t agree with mine, I am OK with that.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Oh, so it was a general perception you had that Christian teaching viewed abortion as sinful, nothing specific you can share with the thread?

It's just an atheist's point of view that draws upon my interactions with Christians.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Opinions need to be based on something.

In your opinion, if a Christian believes that homosexual sex is "sinful", should they strive to abstain from it? Is that what walking the Christian walk entails?

@fmf said
It's just an atheist's point of view that draws upon my interactions with Christians.

In this forum alone we have interacted with Christians who view abortion as both sinful and not sinful.

The Bible itself makes no comment.

@fmf said
In your opinion, if a Christian believes that homosexual sex is "sinful", should they strive to abstain from it? Is that what walking the Christian walk entails?

A Christian who views anything as sinful should strive to abstain from it.

A Christian who feels they are what God made them might think differently and focus more on Christ's primary message of love.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
In this forum alone we have interacted with Christians who view abortion as both sinful and not sinful.

I don't recall any Christian here who has claimed that abortion is not "sinful" according to Christian teaching. Suzianne has been dodging the question for a decade and a half because, I think, the answer her faith tells her is the correct one clashes with her secular ideology and the secular ideology comes out on top on this issue.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
A Christian who feels they are what God made them might think differently and focus more on Christ's primary message of love.

they are what God made them

What does "what" refer to?

"Sinners"?

Are you saying that a Christian walking the Christian walk can choose not to strive to abstain from "sinful" behaviour on account of the fact that they believe "God made them a sinner"?

@fmf said
they are what God made them

What does "what" refer to?

"Sinners"?

Are you saying that a Christian walking the Christian walk can choose not to strive to abstain from "sinful" behaviour on account of the fact that they believe "God made them a sinner"?

I am a heterosexual. If I was a theist I would no doubt think that was the way God made me. - I Imagine a gay Christian who feels their homosexuality is part of who they are (not a choice) would similarly view themselves as what God made them and not see themselves as a sinner.

Or do you think a gay person can choose not to be gay?