@ghost-of-a-duke saidNo, I don't think homosexuality is a choice. But if I were a a gay Christian, I might accept that homosexual sex - as opposed to my homosexuality- was "sinful" if that was the teaching of my church and therefore endeavour - i.e. exercise my choice - to abstain from it.
I am a heterosexual. If I was a theist I would no doubt think that was the way God made me. - I Imagine a gay Christian who feels their homosexuality is part of who they are (not a choice) would similarly view themselves as what God made them and not see themselves as a sinner.
Or do you think a gay person can choose not to be gay?
Of course, as an atheist, who does not subscribe to the notion of "sin", I would not encourage them to see their sexual orientation [and the informed, consensual sex they have] as being wrong.
Are there any other behaviours where, to your way of thinking, whether or not they are "sinful" is the choice of the individual?
30 Jun 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIf you want him to appear, you have to say his name three times while standing in front of a mirror.
I imagine Rajk would have provided indirect passages about all life being precious etc.
30 Jun 23
@suzianne saidThe likes of sonship and KellyJay and josephw have riffed about people being "evil" or "of the devil" innumerable times over the years. Are they your neighbours whom you love, nevertheless?
Why don't you ask him that when he skates away into his riff about me being "evil" or "of the devil"?
30 Jun 23
@fmf saidHow about thinking we are better than others, as you're doing in this very post?
No, I don't think homosexuality is a choice. But if I were a a gay Christian, I might accept that homosexual sex - as opposed to my homosexuality- was "sinful" if that was the teaching of my church and therefore endeavour - i.e. exercise my choice - to abstain from it.
Of course, as an atheist, who does not subscribe to the notion of "sin", I would not encourage them to see t ...[text shortened]... rs where, to your way of thinking, whether or not they are "sinful" is the choice of the individual?
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@fmf saidGalveston75 [a professed “Christian”] once famously told me that he thought I was “worse than Satan”.
The likes of sonship and KellyJay and josephw have riffed about people being "evil" or "of the devil" innumerable times over the years. Are they your neighbours whom you love, nevertheless?
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@fmf saidOn celibacy, Jesus said:
No, I don't think homosexuality is a choice. But if I were a a gay Christian, I might accept that homosexual sex - as opposed to my homosexuality- was "sinful" if that was the teaching of my church and therefore endeavour - i.e. exercise my choice - to abstain from it.
“Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19:11)
He doesn't ask those who can not accept it, or to whom it was not given, to be celibate.
I think a differentiation should be made between Christian teaching (especially when not backed up by scripture) and the teachings of Christ.
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30 Jun 23
@divegeester saidI thought that was Robbie?
Galveston75 [a professed “Christian”] once famously told me that he thought I was “worse than Satan”.
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@fmf saidSure. Murder or lying are choices, and are viewed by scripture as sinful.
Are there any other behaviours where, to your way of thinking, whether or not they are "sinful" is the choice of the individual?
Again, being gay isn't a choice (despite what some Christians have claimed in this forum) and our (apparently) shared view that it isn't healthy/advisable for a gay person to resort to celibacy seems to be shared by Jesus, in the above passage. (Matthew 19:11)
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThis is an interesting passage in which Jesus does not openly condemn sinners outright. This is saying something I have suggested many times. There are 3 classes of people in the world. Chances are most will eventually end up in the Kingdom of God. As Paul also said, all men in their own order.
On celibacy, Jesus said:
“Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.” (Matthew 19:11)
He ...[text shortened]... between Christian teaching (especially when not backed up by scripture) and the teachings of Christ.
Group 1 is the people who have kept the commandments and done whatever is necessary to live righteously. As Jesus said, its not for all people. God has called this people and they are naturally righteous and have no problem keeping the commandments. These form the kings and priests who rule with Christ during the millennial reign
Group 2 are those who are converted during the millennium. Most people fall in this group.
Group 3 those who are hardened evil people and are destroyed along with Satan and his angels.
Just my opinion. Sinners are not necessarily doomed. There is still a while to go for that to happen.