Spirituality
14 Dec 09
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75Listen, this isn't a riddle, I'm asking a straightforward question. Since the Jehovah's witness organization has been around under that name since July 26, 1931, it stands to reason that some if not all of the witnesses around at that time have died. RC tells me that Jehovah's witnesses don't go to heaven (unless they eventually become part of the 144,000) or hell, and that the deceased are awaiting the resurrection. This seems to suggest that the dead witnesses are simply hanging around somewhere. I don't understand what you mean when you say "dead means dead as in they are nothing but dust in the grave", since it seems to contradict your other statement that "none of the dead are gone for good".
Again..dead means dead as in they are nothing but dust in the grave. Need scriptures? You'll get them only if your serious.
Maybe the best way to explain is with an example. Suppose we have witness A, born September 19, 1925 and deceased February 4, 1982. Witness A was a pious witness, but did not seek a heavenly hope so would not be included with the 144,000. Let's also suppose that the resurrection occurs, and that it occurs on August 12, 2034. What happens to witness A:
(a) between February 4, 1982 and August 12, 2034?
(b) after August 12, 2034?
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by Rajk999You make a common error. You are taking a verse out of it's context to support your belief. Leave that verse where it is and consider what the context is saying.
Christ and God are two separate and distinct entities according to Paul:
1Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
So you therefore believe that there are TWO GODS..?
If one is going to talk about the deity of Christ one needs to reference those verses that support the doctrine of the deity of Christ.
For example: 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
You see, this is an example of a proof text.
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by galveston75Do you mean, WHEN did Jesus ever say He was God almighty?
OK...Simple questions....
1) Why did Jesus ever say he was God Almighty?
2) Why are the terms Father & Son even used in the Bible?
3) Why does the Holy Spirit or Ghost not have a name?
4) Why does Jesus say there are things he does not know but only the Father knows?
4 simple quesions of many that can be asked.
It doesn't appear in scripture so it begs the question.
Do you recall the verse in John 5?
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Read the whole chapter carefully. Can you say that you are THE son of God and that that makes you equal with God? No, you can't. You can say that you are a son of God. But that's about all you can say. But when Jesus was talking to the Jews, they understood exactly what He meant when He said I am the Son of God.
17 Dec 09
2 edits
Originally posted by PBE6Hi, PBE6 not hanging around, as in the sense of actually being in a state of flux or suspension, for they cease to exist.
Listen, this isn't a riddle, I'm asking a straightforward question. Since the Jehovah's witness organization has been around under that name since July 26, 1931, it stands to reason that some if not all of the witnesses around at that time have died. RC tells me that Jehovah's witnesses don't go to heaven (unless they eventually become part of the 144,000) or A:
(a) between February 4, 1982 and August 12, 2034?
(b) after August 12, 2034?
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all. . .
How then does god resurrect them? well all he really needs is the information contained in the unique DNA sequence, the blueprint for life to reconstruct, or resurrect a person faithful to his original. What is the estimated population of all those who have lived and died? I do not know, but given the capacity that humans now have for storing information, it would be an easy task for God to do likewise, to store the genetic blueprint and to make life once again manifest from that original sequence. what do you think? Is it not possible?
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwLOL .. are you for real?
..If one is going to talk about the deity of Christ one needs to reference those verses that support the doctrine of the deity of Christ....
You start with the belief that Christ is God then set out to find verses that support a preconceived belief?
JosephW .. pal ... you win. I have neither the time nor the patience to tell you where you going wrong.
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by Rajk999I'll take that as a concession.
LOL .. are you for real?
You start with the belief that Christ is God then set out to find verses that support a preconceived belief?
JosephW .. pal ... you win. I have neither the time nor the patience to tell you where you going wrong.
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwYes I meant When...Can you not answer the other questions?
Do you mean, WHEN did Jesus ever say He was God almighty?
It doesn't appear in scripture so it begs the question.
Do you recall the verse in John 5?
[b]Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Read the whole chapter caref ...[text shortened]... g to the Jews, they understood exactly what He meant when He said I am the Son of God.[/b]
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwTake it how you like.
I'll take that as a concession.
People like you lack the capability of independent thought. You are simply a dustbin for rubbish interpretations feed to you by religious organisations. There are very clear passages which contradict the view that Christ is God, and therefore that doctrine cannot be a cardinal doctrine. So if you have some commonsense you will see how childish you are to condemn other Christians for not sharing in your onesided thinking.
17 Dec 09
Originally posted by Rajk999People like me?
Take it how you like.
People like you lack the capability of independent thought. You are simply a dustbin for rubbish interpretations feed to you by religious organisations. There are very clear passages which contradict the view that Christ is God, and therefore that doctrine cannot be a cardinal doctrine. So if you have some commonsense you will see how childish you are to condemn other Christians for not sharing in your onesided thinking.
I thought you didn't have time.
You're right of course. I am incapable of independent thought.
Proverbs 3:5,6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
You see, it's not me that has a problem. It's you. All you can do is spout out what YOU think. You are in the way of yourself. That's why you miss the true meaning of scripture. You don't allow God to reveal it's truth to you. You insist on your own thoughts being injected into it's meaning. When you learn how to allow the scripture to speak for itself, then you will begin to hear the voice of God.
18 Dec 09
Originally posted by josephwThe scripture is speaking for itself:
..allow the scripture to speak for itself ...
1Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
It says very clearly that the head of Christ is God. They therefore cannot possibly one and the same. They are separate and distinct.
18 Dec 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackoh definately!!
I'm so bored with this! After 10 minutes listening to this never ending drone of people talking authoritatively about god (people who I wouldn't trust to take my garbage out to the street) I can only conclude that any religion is preferable to christianity. The John Frum religion is actually the one that most in the western civilizations follow so I'm th ...[text shortened]... ing of starting a thread designed to convert all the christians on this site. Who's with me?
Anyway here's my nice side: JW's have been very decent people and upheld a lot of very basic,decent human truths.
Lets give them credit for that.
Now as far as the negatives are concerned, they are VERY REAL.
Manny pointed out a few in his OP.
Now we can all learn from this and know the ways in which not to go.
Still , the fact they are non-violent(as far as i know)means we can learn .
18 Dec 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelThanks..I think.
oh definately!!
Anyway here's my nice side: JW's have been very decent people and upheld a lot of very basic,decent human truths.
Lets give them credit for that.
Now as far as the negatives are concerned, they are VERY REAL.
Manny pointed out a few in his OP.
Now we can all learn from this and know the ways in which not to go.
Still , the fact they are non-violent(as far as i know)means we can learn .