Putting the cart before the horse.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
More than able to sir, but not legally required to do so.


(Heads up. Specifying what verse you are referring to might secure a response).

You quoted Ephesians at the top of the previous page and I said that the very same writer and book says this as well

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (Ephesians 5:1-5 KJV)

So even though it is true that it is Christ that saves, and nobody can save themselves, it is equally true that Christians are required to live righteously otherwise they will not enter the Kingdom of God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You quoted Ephesians at the top of the previous page and I said that the very same writer and book says this as well

[i]Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or cov ...[text shortened]... at Christians are required to live righteously otherwise they will not enter the Kingdom of God.

Would it be fair to say that aligns with Catholicism?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Would it be fair to say that aligns with Catholicism?

Dunno.. how is that relevent?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Dunno.. how is that relevent?

Perhaps, if you did know, you would understand the relevance.

I'm not accountable sir for the gaps in your knowledge.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Perhaps, if you did know, you would understand the relevance.

I'm not accountable sir for the gaps in your knowledge.

You are a comedian.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Can you justify this:

You sometimes seem to dismiss out of hand a part of scripture if you feel it conflicts with Jesus' words

Please show me what passages in scripture I dismiss out of hand. Thank you very much.

And I will comment on this

[i] I know you say you don't ask questions and I find it hard to believe that any Christian would v ...[text shortened]... others are saying here before you condemn me.

Nothing of substance in the rest of your post.

"Can you justify this: "

Stop being deceitful by asking questions of someone!

Originally posted by Rajk999
Dunno.. how is that relevent?

Man, what another question, how can you live with yourself!?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Carry on talking pal ..😀
Do you need an audience?
Are you that needy or lacking in confidence?
Speak!
I dont need you to listen or read what I say.
I say it anyway
Maybe you need some of my guts .. I have a lot.

How many questions did you ask in this post?
OH MAN almost everything said was in the form of a question!

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
A horse walks into a bar.
"Why the long face?" asks the bar tender.
"How do we know we actually exist?" came the forlorn reply.
"Well sir, I think, therefore I am."

(An example of putting Descartes before the horse).

lol.
Caught me off guard.

The colt clears its throat and says " Excuse me. I'm a little horse."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Apostle John writes that the SEED implanted in the believers cannot sin. And for that reason abiding by the LIFE of this SEED is the ONLY way to keep from sinning.

" Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, BECAUSE ... His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, BECAUSE ... he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:9)

In the Apostle's teaching here -WHICH comes first ?

1.) Not sinning and THEN the SEED and its unsinning life.

2.) The SEED and its unsinning life and THEN not sinning.


The divine SEED of God comes first.
The non-sinning life comes from and ONLY from the life of that divine SEED.

" ... because His [God's] seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God."

The "HORSE" is the divine seed of God's life.
The "CART" is the non-sinning life out of being begotten of the divine birth.

Originally posted by sonship
The Apostle John writes that the SEED implanted in the believers cannot sin. And for that reason abiding by the LIFE of this SEED is the ONLY way to keep from sinning.

[quote] [b] " Everyone who has been begotten of God does not practice sin, BECAUSE ... His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, BECAUSE ... he has been begotten of God." (1 John 3:9) [/ ...[text shortened]... ed of God's life.
The "CART" is the non-sinning life out of being begotten of the divine birth.

The word of God is easy to twist BUT anyone who desires truth can find it very easily. Every passage you quote and explain, has an explaination not far away which is contrary to yours. There appears to be only two passages in which the writer use the word 'seed' to mean 'born of God'. Peter and John. All other references to 'seed' means descendants. Here they are:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now you say: The divine SEED of God comes first.
The non-sinning life comes from and ONLY from the life of that divine SEED.

The Bible never says any divine seed comes first. On the contrary in the very same chapter, 1 Peter 1 and in 1 John 3, both writers say this:

1 Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3 KJV)

According to Peter you purify yourself by obeying Christ and demonstrating love for each other. John says you purify yourself if you want to see Christ in the Kingdom of God. But if you continue to sin you are of the devil and not of God

Contrary to what you preach there is no magic seed that God puts into anyone. All mankind is free to accept/reject Christ and free to obey/disobey his commandments. Both Peter and John in addressing the saints and Christians, continue with dire warnings against living a life of sin. If it were true that God puts some 'seed' into all Christians after which they cannot, then that would be made clear.

Here is what is clear in the teachings of Christ and the Aposltes: IF you follow Christs commandments then God will make his abode with you.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The word of God is easy to twist BUT anyone who desires truth can find it very easily. Every passage you quote and explain, has an explaination not far away which is contrary to yours. There appears to be only two passages in which the writer use the word 'seed' to mean 'born of God'. Peter and John. All other references to 'seed' means descendants. Here t ...[text shortened]... and the Aposltes: IF you follow Christs commandments then God will make his abode with you.[/b]

More:

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
..Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (James 4:8-10 KJV)

Man has to act first.
Then God will respond.

Originally posted by Rajk999
More:

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
..Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (James 4:8-10 KJV)

Man has to act first.
Then God will respond.

"Man has to act first. Then God will respond."

1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You have it all bass ackwards Rajk. You're thinking it from the wrong direction. It's effecting your ability to understand God's grace.

No one is arguing against obedience. But it just won't save you.

Armstrong has deceived you.

Originally posted by Rajk999

The word of God is easy to twist BUT anyone who desires truth can find it very easily. Every passage you quote and explain, has an explaination not far away which is contrary to yours.

No it doesn't begotten of God means a man already naturally born receives in addition a new divine life. That life is the life of God. And that is the seed of God in that passage.

" Everyone who has been BEGOTTEN ... His seed abides in him BECAUSE he has been BEGOTTEN of God." (See 1 John 3:9)

Obviously BORN [BEGOTTEN] of God and receiving God's SEED here are the same.

There appears to be only two passages in which the writer use the word 'seed' to mean 'born of God'. Peter and John. All other references to 'seed' means descendants. Here they are:

Whether are only two or not makes no difference.
That seed might be used is somewhat different senses elsewhere makes no difference to 1 John 3:9.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

That certainly confirms the understanding of 1 John 3:9 meaning the seed is God's life. Jesus said that the WORD He spoke was Spirit and life [b](John 6:63)

"It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are [divine] life." (John 6:63)

He puts His life into His people not by physically forcing them to eat His flesh and blood, but by them receiving into their hearts His word which is living and abiding and is divine ZOE life.

So the believers are born not of corruptible seed , but of the incorruptible living word of God which gives life.

First

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Most English versions I see say abides or abideth.
You have "is in him".
You have "resides in him".
You have in KJV ""remaineth in him".

The fact of the matter is that the overcoming of sin is because of the life seed.
Whether you want to say abides or you want to insist it is remaineth, the nature of not sinning is the nature of the seed.

So the seed must be planted, and grow, and the receiver must learn to live by the life which the seed has imparted into him. The seed comes first. The victory over sin comes because of the life of that divine seed.

Arguing over "remaineth" verses "abides" does nothing to change this.

Now you say: The divine SEED of God comes first.

The Apostle John says that. And it is to those who RECEIVE Christ as life, who are begotten of God, it is granted the authority to become children of God.

"But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, ... WHO WERE BEGOTTEN ... of God." (See John 1:12,13)