Spirituality
09 Apr 07
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by jammerYes, that's me, based on my various contacts with religious and non-religious people, not least on this forum. Also, there was a light misquote of Richard Dawkins in there. However, let me put it another way:
Who did you quote?
Yourself?
How many of the following religions do you believe have The Truth?
- Baha'i - One of the youngest of the world's major religions.
- Buddhism A way of living based on the teachings of Siddartha Gautama.
- Candomblé - A religion based on African beliefs, originating in Brazil.
- Christianity - The world's biggest faith, based on the teaching of Jesus Christ.
- Hinduism - A group of faiths rooted in the religious ideas of India.
- Islam - Revealed in its final form by the Prophet Muhammad.
- Jainism - An ancient philosophy and ethical teaching that originated in India.
- Jehovah's Witnesses - A Christian-based evangelistic religious movement.
- Judaism - Based around the Jewish people's covenant relationship with God.
- Mormon - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- Paganism - Contemporary religions usually based on reverence for nature.
- Rastafari - A young religion based on Marcus Garvey's philosophies.
- Santeria - Afro-Caribbean syncretic religion originating in Cuba.
- Scientology - a body of teachings and related techniques developed by American science fiction author L. Ron Hubbard.
- Shinto - Japanese folk tradition and ritual with no founder or single sacred scripture.
- Sikhism - The religion founded by Guru Nanak in India in the 15th Century CE.
- Taoism - An ancient tradition of philosophy and belief rooted in Chinese worldview.
- Unitarianism - An open-minded and individualistic approach to religion.
- Zoroastrianism - One of the oldest monotheistic faiths, founded by the prophet Zoroaster.
Most of the members of each of those religions believes their religin has The truth and that all the others are wrong.
--- Penguin.
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by PenguinScientists disagree among themselves but that doesn't invalidate science.
Most of the members of each of those religions believes their religin has The truth and that all the others are wrong.
--- Penguin.
I'd be interested to know what you think of Rupert Sheldrake's take on Dawkins. Here is a link to an interview with him:
http://www.skeptiko.com/index.php?id=8
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by Bosse de NageScientists disagree yes. But they don't claim knowledge of absolute truth to begin with. That is why the disagreements do not invalidate science.
Scientists disagree among themselves but that doesn't invalidate science.
I'd be interested to know what you think of Rupert Sheldrake's take on Dawkins. Here is a link to an interview with him:
http://www.skeptiko.com/index.php?id=8
Looks like an interesting interview. Daniel Dennet is on it as well so it should be good.
I'll download it and subscribe to the podcast as well. Hopefully I'll be able to listen to it tomorrow.
--- Penguin.
11 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by wittywonkaBe grateful that you will not be around to lament over your non-existence, try to maintain your existence whilst you can, and make sure that the effort is justified.
This may seem obvious, but that shows what I know. How do Atheists cope with the idea of death? I mean, when my mind wanders through various topics, I tremble at the idea of death, but then I feel reassured by the idea of Christian heaven, and then when I have my skeptical moments about Christianity, I have to wrestle with the idea even more...
Anyway, I know it all sounds a bit cheesy, but how do you do it?
*edit* and try to keep ones distance from the gun-toting book- fearing jammers of society
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by PenguinNever even considered that we get to define our own terms here, makes it tough to debate when you get to move the goal posts and redefine terms.
Yes, that's me, based on my various contacts with religious and non-religious people, not least on this forum. Also, there was a light misquote of Richard Dawkins in there. However, let me put it another way:
How many of the following religions do you believe have The Truth?
- Baha'i - One of the youngest of the world's major religions.
- Buddhism ...[text shortened]... s believes their religin has The truth and that all the others are wrong.
--- Penguin.
As for all your listing of religions and whether I believe one or more of them "have The Truth."
No.
They're all basicly controled by snakeoil salesmen in dresses.
Now let me ask you a question about your religion: Do you think Richard Dawkins is a spirtiual leader?
11 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by jammerWhat do you mean "define own terms".
Never even considered that we get to define our own terms here, makes it tough to debate when you get to move the goal posts and redefine terms.
As for all your listing of religions and whether I believe one or more of them "have The Truth."
No.
They're all basicly controled by snakeoil salesmen in dresses.
Now let me ask you a question about your re ...[text shortened]... orship.
How could Dawkins be a religious leader without any supernatural deity to worship?
The definition of "atheist" is very clear;
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
From answers.com
The first is weak atheism. The second, strong atheism. I am in the first category based upon the principle of parsimony. There is no evidence for God, and nothing which requires God as an explanation, therefore, I deny the existence of God.
Now let me ask you a question about your religion: Do you think Richard Dawkins is a spirtiual leader?
I don't have a religion, and no RD is not a religious leader.
Religion
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
How could he be a religious leader if he doesn't have a deity to worship?
11 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by scottishinnzThat's basicly all I was looking for .. you and others to finally define your position as "weak" atheism .. which puts you in the "I don't know" catagory along with the rest of us skeptics.
What do you mean "define own terms".
The definition of "atheist" is very clear;
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
From answers.com
The first is weak atheism. The second, strong atheism. I am in the first category based upon the principle of parsimony. nd worship.
How could he be a religious leader if he doesn't have a deity to worship?
Just wanted to reveal your smugness for what it is.
I can't tell you how good it makes me feel to hear such an esteemed "scienctist" as yourself say .. I don't know .. and make no mistake that's what a weak atheist says.
I put (true) Atheists and Theists in the same catagory .. deluded.
I don't believe we can know while we live.
.................................
Sure you have a religion .. it's Nature isn't it? You kind of worship yourself don't you? Your mind? There is no higher power than you is there?
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by jammerGet therapy. You badly need it.
That's basicly all I was looking for .. you and others to finally define your position as "weak" atheism .. which puts you in the "I don't know" catagory along with the rest of us skeptics.
Just wanted to reveal your smugness for what it is.
I can't tell you how good it makes me feel to hear such an esteemed "scienctist" as yourself say .. I don't know .. ...[text shortened]... orship yourself don't you? Your mind? There is no higher power than you is there?
11 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by jammerNever even considered that we get to define our own terms here, makes it tough to debate when you get to move the goal posts and redefine terms.
Never even considered that we get to define our own terms here, makes it tough to debate when you get to move the goal posts and redefine terms.
As for all your listing of religions and whether I believe one or more of them "have The Truth."
No.
They're all basicly controled by snakeoil salesmen in dresses.
Now let me ask you a question about your religion: Do you think Richard Dawkins is a spirtiual leader?
Didn't realise I was redefining anything.
As for all your listing of religions and whether I believe one or more of them "have The Truth." No. They're all basicly controled by snakeoil salesmen in dresses.
So if you have a religion, this suggests that you disbelieve in all other religions. Which is what I originally said: Theists disbelieve in all but one religion wheras atheists disbelieve in one more.
Now let me ask you a question about your religion: Do you think Richard Dawkins is a spirtiual leader?
I have no religion. Religion is belief in the supernatural. I do not believe in the supernatural. Religion is belief in something which cannot be proven wrong (like fairies at the bottom of the garden). I will not knowingly put any trust in any statement that cannot be tested.
Dawkins is not a spiritual leader, just a very vocal atheist.
--- Penguin.
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by wittywonkaIgnore it. When it comes, it comes. I also try to live in such a way that I'll be reasonably satisfied with how I left things when it does come, but that's obviously of no more than sentimental importance.
This may seem obvious, but that shows what I know. How do Atheists cope with the idea of death? I mean, when my mind wanders through various topics, I tremble at the idea of death, but then I feel reassured by the idea of Christian heaven, and then when I have my skeptical moments about Christianity, I have to wrestle with the idea even more...
Anyway, I know it all sounds a bit cheesy, but how do you do it?
11 Apr 07
1 edit
I've had years of therapy, finally drove the guy crazy and he gave up on me.
Like you .. he didn't know either.
That's what is funny about this thread .. you and others choking on the words "I don't know"
..........................
from your previous post ..
"1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
From answers.com
The first is weak atheism. The second, strong atheism. I am in the first category based upon the principle of parsimony. There is no evidence for God, and nothing which requires God as an explanation, therefore, I deny the existence of God"
..................................
Disbelief is one thing, denial quite another .. yet both are code for "I don't know" in this case.
The weakness of your argument is your inability to say the words "I don't know" .. you dance around it, but never come right out and admit the truth.
You're just another egomanical narcissist .. at least that's what my therapist said.
11 Apr 07
Originally posted by jammerThat is absurd. I'm a strong atheist and I don't claim to know everything. You mistakenly think that the strong atheist must claim to know everything because you think it that absolute certainty is necessary for knowledge. But even casual reflection on this should be sufficient to show otherwise.
Atheists .. and you in particular .. are ignorant because they claim to "know everything."
More arrogant than ignorant.
12 Apr 07
Originally posted by jammerI don't know whether God exists or doesn't exist. Happy?
I've had years of therapy, finally drove the guy crazy and he gave up on me.
Like you .. he didn't know either.
That's what is funny about this thread .. you and others choking on the words "I don't know"
..........................
from your previous post ..
"1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is n ...[text shortened]... re just another egomanical narcissist .. at least that's what my therapist said.
Based upon the evidence (or lack of evidence) for his existence, I have come to the conclusion that he doesn't. I deny his existence.
I deny it, in much the same way I deny fairies, leprechauns, and dragons, yet I have no proof that they don't exist either.