Spirituality
09 Apr 07
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by rwingettWe've had this discussion before and you remain wrong. A true agnostic would not presume that the theist has the burden of proof as you do.
Why don't you tell me what you think antitheism is? I looked it up in the dictionary but it wasn't in there, so I'm assuming that you made it up.
Atheists react as they do because they do not want to live under a theocracy. Which is where theists would take us if they were given a free hand in running things. Somebody's got to keep them in line. You can ...[text shortened]... theist or an atheist. If you are not a theist, then by definition you are an atheist.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by no1marauderIf you, as a self-professed agnostic, want to relieve the theist from his burden of proof, then do so. That is your failing. I will expect the theist to fulfill his burden of proof and see no reason why I should not.
So if you're happy to remain wrong, do so. But that sounds sooooooooooooooooo theistic-like.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by rwingettActually, I'm moving toward a non-dualistic philosophy somewhat akin to Taoism.
If you, as a self-professed agnostic, want to relieve the theist from his burden of proof, then do so. That is your failing. I will expect the theist to fulfill his burden of proof and see no reason why I should not.
In any event, I'm not saying you're wrong to place the burden of proof on the theist per se; I'm saying you're wrong to say that agnosticism is the same thing as atheism.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by no1marauderI never said that. I said that agnosticism was not necessarily a separate category from theism or atheism, and that agnostics were either agnostic theists or agnostic atheists. But that's ultimately a minor point for me. If agnostics really want to maintain their status as a separate category, then I won't argue the point too strenuously.
Actually, I'm moving toward a non-dualistic philosophy somewhat akin to Taoism.
In any event, I'm not saying you're wrong to place the burden of proof on the theist per se; I'm saying you're wrong to say that agnosticism is the same thing as atheism.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by wittywonkaI hear what you are saying. When I really sit and contemplate my mortality, it frightens me terribly. My time to be aware and alive is so short! I really like myself. How could I just cease to be???
This may seem obvious, but that shows what I know. How do Atheists cope with the idea of death? I mean, when my mind wanders through various topics, I tremble at the idea of death, but then I feel reassured by the idea of Christian heaven, and then when I have my skeptical moments about Christianity, I have to wrestle with the idea even more...
Anyway, I know it all sounds a bit cheesy, but how do you do it?
Honestly, I deal with it by ignoring it. Yes, I accept it too (to the degree that it is possible), but I find it better for my mood just to turn my thoughts to other things when I begin wandering down that path. There's nothing to be done about it anyway.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by jammerPhD's don't take tests. They write them.
Just go ahead and say it .. you think you're smarter than everyone else.
Stephen Hawkings may be the high priest of Atheism, but he still needs someone to wipe his arse for him .. or in your case .. lick it.
Memorizing and regurgetating "facts" for some University test is one thing .. being able to tie your own shoes and wipe your own arse is quite anoth ...[text shortened]... of fact, from your posts, you don't much of anything outside of one little area of life.
They also ask real questions, do real research, and add real contributions to human knowledge. Obviously they are fallible, and their authority on a subject can always be questioned, but it is silly to dismiss their learning out of hand.
13 Apr 07
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Although I haven't read it yet, I've been anxious to read the book "The History of God" because I feel as if it will relate to how I am feeling in a sense. From what I've heard, it takes the standpoint that humans have needed and will always need comfort in something, and that many (though obviously not all) do so by belief in god(s). I feel the same way; the more I think about it, the more I am terrified that maybe it was all made up to make us feel better, but then I think, "Well how's it going to hurt me to hope for the existence of an actual omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving God?" and I move on, still believing. Can anyone relate to this?
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by ChoreantI can't prove that there aren't fairies at the bottom of the garden. The most parsimonious argument is that they don't exist.
Can you prove it??? You can't, so begone with such opinions until you'll be able to support it. I'm a Chrstian, but won't say that atheism is crock of crap,and that I have an ULTIMATE THRUTH.
You atheists are so arrogant... 😞
There is no proof that God exists. The most parsimonious argument is that he doesn't. Even the concept of God is internally incoherent.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by ChoreantThere is a difference between an opinion, and a proclaimed truth.
Your logic-ville is a bit weird town,i presume. If you've got your favourite soup, is it neccesary for you to everyone admit it is the best??? No,you eat this soup and let the rest be. So can't you imagine doing the same with religion???
In you example, I would say that the soup flavour was my favourite. That's my opinion.
What I wouldn't try to say is that it is an irrefutable fact that this flavour of soup is the best.
If that soup really was "the best" I could NEVER change my mind on it. If I did, it'd be an opinion, not a fact.
Facts and opinions are different things. You seem confused on this point.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by ChoreantDo you KNOW there is a God or not?
not exactly. belive means to assume,but without need to have certainty,not being certain. all those mechanism,you wrote about work,but in the opposite direction,for all theists,who once was atheists.
If not, it's merely your opinion. In which case, you would presumably be willing to change religion if the evidence was for, say, Islam?
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by wittywonkaNo, I can't relate to that. The notion that the world might allow supernatural entities freaks me out - that's why I'm an atheist.
Although I haven't read it yet, I've been anxious to read the book "The History of God" because I feel as if it will relate to how I am feeling in a sense. From what I've heard, it takes the standpoint that humans have needed and will always need comfort in something, and that many (though obviously not all) do so by belief in a god(s). I feel the same ...[text shortened]... omnipotent, all-loving God?" and I move on, still believing. Can anyone relate to this?
But I have read 'History of God' - the book by Karen Armstrong. Very good read, worth a look. Her book on the history of fundamentalism in Christianity, Judaism and Islam - The Battle for God - is also excellent.
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by no1marauderWell, a true agnostic is a funny flip flopping thing.
We've had this discussion before and you remain wrong. A true agnostic would not presume that the theist has the burden of proof as you do.
However, parsimony being what it is, the burden of proof is most definitely upon the person who makes the positive claim (i.e. something (such as a God) exists).
13 Apr 07
Originally posted by wittywonkaWhy stop with an omnipotent, omniscient God then? (you know what they say, if you're going to lie, tell a whopper)
Although I haven't read it yet, I've been anxious to read the book "The History of God" because I feel as if it will relate to how I am feeling in a sense. From what I've heard, it takes the standpoint that humans have needed and will always need comfort in something, and that many (though obviously not all) do so by belief in god(s). I feel the same wa ...[text shortened]... omnipotent, all-loving God?" and I move on, still believing. Can anyone relate to this?
Why not lie to yourself on a whole host of things to dull the pain? Why not tell yourself that people don't get hurt when you drive into them? Why not lie to yourself and tell you that all the bad things in your life aren't you fault, and that you can do nothing about them?
Ultimately, we have to face up to the things that scare us, if we are to grow, and to improve our lives.