18 Oct 16
Originally posted by KellyJayI agree with these statements
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
You respond with this:
"Is that the best you have? Pitiful nonsense doctrine you believe in.
Nothing there about eternal torment, plus it refers to a ...[text shortened]... same thing cannot mean the same thing to you if they do not line
up to your personal doctrine.
- The beast, false prophet and the devil are tormented eternally.
- Those who worship the beast are also tormented eternally.
The first group is clear and is specific to 3 beings. I do not claim to who are the people in the second group are. But it appears that you do and worst you apply it it all of humanity. That is what is pitiful about your doctrine.
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Originally posted by Rajk999I have thought and studied this matter a lot.
I agree with these statements
- The beast, false prophet and the devil are tormented eternally.
- Those who worship the beast are also tormented eternally.
The first group is clear and is specific to 3 beings. I do not claim to who are the people in the second group are. But it appears that you do and worst you apply it it all of humanity. That is what is pitiful about your doctrine.
Look, you are correct that EXPLICITLY the details in that verse only mention the Devil, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. That is right.
But the prospect of going to same place should be fearful. The place, the place itself is to be avoided through Christ's salvation. Don't you think that is the point?
"And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev. 20:15)
Will the result be the same as that mentioned in 20:10 ?
Who cares? The place itself is no place to end up.
Harping on the matter that only three are explicitly described as to their experience there is of no comfort. No one in his right mind should want to end up where the Devil is going to be.
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't have a say in who is going to be thrown into that fire for ever and ever, the one thing we do know is that people will be there. You believe it is a pitiful doctrine, I think it is horrible! The trouble we both have is our opinions don't change reality and as much as I do not like it, it is what it is. I can change my opinion, but reality will remain regardless of what I desire to be true.
I agree with these statements
- The beast, false prophet and the devil are tormented eternally.
- Those who worship the beast are also tormented eternally.
The first group is clear and is specific to 3 beings. I do not claim to who are the people in the second group are. But it appears that you do and worst you apply it it all of humanity. That is what is pitiful about your doctrine.
Truth does not change because I disagree or dislike it. So if scripture says something i dislike i have to accept it, I am judged by scripture I am not the author or judge of it.
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you believe that everything in the bible is literal?
I don't have a say in who is going to be thrown into that fire for ever and ever, the one thing we do know is that people will be there. You believe it is a pitiful doctrine, I think it is horrible! The trouble we both have is our opinions don't change reality and as much as I do not like it, it is what it is. I can change my opinion, but reality will remai ...[text shortened]... hing i dislike i have to accept it, I am judged by scripture I am not the author or judge of it.
Originally posted by sonshipWho in their right mind has even a jot of evidence that any human has ever ended up "where the Devil is going to be" in the entire history if humankind and what on earth is the purpose of making such a preposterously ghastly threat against people who find the whole ghastly mythology simply preposterous?
No one in his right mind should want to end up where the Devil is going to be.
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by sonshipMathew 25.41 says what?
I have thought and studied this matter a lot.
Look, you are correct that EXPLICITLY the details in that verse only mention the Devil, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. That is right.
But the prospect of going to same place should be fearful. The place, the place itself is to be avoided through Christ's salvation. Don't you think that is the poi ...[text shortened]... is of no comfort. No one in his right mind should want to end up where the Devil is going to be.
Originally posted by FMF
Who in their right mind has even a jot of evidence that any human has ever ended up "where the Devil is going to be" in the entire history if humankind and what on earth is the purpose of making such a preposterously ghastly threat against people who find the whole ghastly mythology simply preposterous?
Originally posted by KellyJayWell, good for you if you've found something that makes you feel both suitably sanctimonious AND comfortable, but referring to your beliefs as "hard truth" probably belongs on a Preaching To The Choir Forum somewhere.
Hard horrible truth is truth nonetheless it changes not because I find it disagreeable and not to my liking. Itching ears only accept what they like and nothing else.
I could set you up here with a Muslim friend, if you want, and you could go "Mine's the hard truth, "no, MINE's the hard truth", "no it's not, MINE's the hard truth", "you're wrong, MINE's the hard truth", "NO it isn't", "YES it is" etc. etc.... and it could on all night long.
Your silly attempted "itching ears" put down does not disguise the fact that you have simply sidestepped the content of the post of mine you were supposedly responding to. They pertained to 'evidence' and to 'purpose'.
Add to them, this: 'What makes you believe this punishment you imagine to be real is morally coherent?' Explain the morality of it; enough with the "hard truth" sloganeering.
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by FMFSorry didn't realize it was you!
Well, good for you if you've found something that makes you feel both suitably sanctimonious AND comfortable, but referring to your beliefs as "hard truth" probably belongs on a Preaching To The Choir Forum somewhere.
I could set you up here with a Muslim friend, if you want, and you could go "Mine's the hard truth, "no, MINE's the hard truth", "no it's not, ...[text shortened]... eal is morally coherent?' Explain the morality of it; enough with the "hard truth" sloganeering.
Originally posted by KellyJayYou could hardly be more unimpressive if you tried. Luckily for your religion, there are plenty of Christians out there with more gumption than you. OK, so I called you out for spewing some far right nonsense about government not interfering in families, even if religious zealots were attempting to sacrifice their own children to "God". I called you out. Live with it. Grow up. And grow a pair. If you truly believe the child sacrifice thing is morally sound, then stand by it and speak up for it. If you felt wounded by the mirror I held up to you, then admit it, and get past it. It's as simple as that.
Sorry didn't realize it was you!
18 Oct 16
1 edit
Originally posted by sonshipThank you. The only passage that EXPLICITLY states eternal torment is one passage and it states that only 3 beings experience such torment.
I have thought and studied this matter a lot.
Look, you are correct that EXPLICITLY the details in that verse only mention the Devil, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. That is right.
But the prospect of going to same place should be fearful. The place, the place itself is to be avoided through Christ's salvation. Don't you think that is the poi ...[text shortened]... is of no comfort. No one in his right mind should want to end up where the Devil is going to be.
That is the truth. End of story.
Everything else is guesswork.
KJ is an idiot as are all those who proclaim that everyone who is not in the Kingdom of God is in eternal torment. Maybe you can educate him as he is one of your devotees.
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by KellyJayIt says:
Mathew 25.41 says what?
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
The fire is prepared for the devil and his angels. Many will be cast into this fire and will experience some torment and eventual death as is stated in many parts of the Bible.
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by KellyJayYou have previously stated that there are only two options for people:
I don't have a say in who is going to be thrown into that fire for ever and ever, the one thing we do know is that people will be there. You believe it is a pitiful doctrine, I think it is horrible! The trouble we both have is our opinions don't change reality and as much as I do not like it, it is what it is. I can change my opinion, but reality will remai ...[text shortened]... hing i dislike i have to accept it, I am judged by scripture I am not the author or judge of it.
1. Eternal life in the Kingdom of God
2. Eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.
This is what I mean by 'pitiful' .. YOUR INTERPRETATION is pitiful because the Bible says no such thing.
18 Oct 16
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999You are adding to the Word of God inserting things not there as suggesting the torment
It says:
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
The fire is prepared for the devil and his angels. Many will be cast into this fire and will experience some torment and eventual death as is stated in many parts of the Bible.
there isn't as it is described. You have already seen that people will be there, you have
acknowledge that:
"- The beast, false prophet and the devil are tormented eternally.
- Those who worship the beast are also tormented eternally. "
So even though people are mentioned as being there you want to add something not
in scripture into it just to down play that some people's torment will not last as long as
others. Granted that sounds nice by you based that on what verse?
18 Oct 16
Originally posted by Rajk999Only two options for what, those whose names are written in the book of life and those
You have previously stated that there are only two options for people:
1. Eternal life in the Kingdom of God
2. Eternal torment in the Lake of Fire.
This is what I mean by 'pitiful' .. YOUR INTERPRETATION is pitiful because the Bible says no such thing.
names that are not? It is going to be an either or, if I were you I'd start reading what the
scripture actually says instead of reading into it things that are NOT there.
Revelation 20:15
Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.