Question for the Geester

Originally posted by Rajk999
You have to 'add up' .. proof that it is not in the Bible.

I would call this examining the weight of evidence.
it is not on your side. That's clear.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I'm not sure the book of Revelation is the best place to go to for a clear cut explanation of anything. (A book rife with abstract symbolism). Take for example Revelation 19:11-16:

'I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. His eyes are like bla ...[text shortened]... nows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.'

You can reject it if you wish, it is a book of scripture just as much as gospel of John.

Originally posted by Rajk999

You have extrapolated this suffering to others .. not the Bible

I believe that the suffering each lost soul is occupied with may be the one factor that keeps them from carrying out further crimes on each other.

It is an opinion. Since all the lost are together, God will preoccupy each with his own restrictive suffering. They will not be able to come together to ferment revolt or rebellion or commit further crimes upon each other.

Originally posted by sonship
I would call this examining the weight of evidence.
it is not on your side. That's clear.

The weight of the evidence is on the side of destruction, death and complete and irreversible annihilation of the wicked and sinful people.

For every verse you quote where people are tormented, there are a dozen which state that they are destroyed .. NOT that they will continue to exist in torment.

The fact that Christians like you gravitate to this rubbish doctrine of eternal torment shows where your thoughts really are and how shallow your compassion is for humanity.

The end of the wicked is death .. not eternal torment ... sicko.

Originally posted by Rajk999
The weight of the evidence is on the side of destruction, death and complete and irreversible annihilation of the wicked and sinful people.

For every verse you quote where people are tormented, there are a dozen which state that they are destroyed .. NOT that they will continue to exist in torment.

The fact that Christians like you gravitate to this ru ...[text shortened]... ompassion is for humanity.

The end of the wicked is death .. not eternal torment ... sicko.

You say there are dozens of verses that suggest they are destroyed.
Give me five that declares destruction at judgment day.

I do not want to see you having to ADD to the verses either to make them sound that way!

Originally posted by KellyJay
You can reject it if you wish, it is a book of scripture just as much as gospel of John.

My point was not about rejecting the book of revelation. (As an atheist that is pretty much a given). My point was that Revelation clearly holds a lot of metaphor and symbolism. How can you extrapolate from such a book what is literal and what is symbolic?

What, for example, makes Revelation 20 and the lake of fire literal, and Revelation 19 and the white horse metaphorical?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

Are you angry with me?

Originally posted by KellyJay
You say there are dozens of verses that suggest they are destroyed.
Give me five that declares destruction at judgment day.

I do not want to see you having to ADD to the verses either to make them sound that way!

Do you believe that everything in the bible is literal?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
My point was not about rejecting the book of revelation. (As an atheist that is pretty much a given). My point was that Revelation clearly holds a lot of metaphor and symbolism. How can you extrapolate from such a book what is literal and what is symbolic?

What, for example, makes Revelation 20 and the lake of fire literal, and Revelation 19 and the white horse metaphorical?

How do you know the White horse is not going to occur as written? Spiritual battles occur in scripture too as well as God calling us. Simply because you reject the spiritual world doesn't mean all you see and hear is all there is.

Originally posted by KellyJay
How do you know the White horse is not going to occur as written? Spiritual battles occur in scripture too as well as God calling us. Simply because you reject the spiritual world doesn't mean all you see and hear is all there is.

I guess you can be content to throw pious scriptures at other posters about being angry, but can't bring yourself to snap out of your pathetic sulk. Log in your eye much?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
My point was not about rejecting the book of revelation. (As an atheist that is pretty much a given). My point was that Revelation clearly holds a lot of metaphor and symbolism. How can you extrapolate from such a book what is literal and what is symbolic?

What, for example, makes Revelation 20 and the lake of fire literal, and Revelation 19 and the white horse metaphorical?

I would also point out even if the message was meant to be symbolic in nature the danger we are being warned about have to be as deadly or what is the point?

Originally posted by KellyJay
How do you know the White horse is not going to occur as written? Spiritual battles occur in scripture too as well as God calling us. Simply because you reject the spiritual world doesn't mean all you see and hear is all there is.

If your position is that the entire book of Revelation is literal and holds no symbolism then you are the first Christian I have encountered who holds such a belief. (I was being gentle with 'the white horse.' There is much more in there that absolutely screams metaphor).

Originally posted by Rajk999

The weight of the evidence is on the side of destruction, death and complete and irreversible annihilation of the wicked and sinful people.

As expected, you DID NOT answer the questions.
The questions will not go away. They should be answered by someone calling others fools and idiots for taking the Scripture at its word.

For every verse you quote where people are tormented, there are a dozen which state that they are destroyed .. NOT that they will continue to exist in torment.

Then one more question which you will ignore to deal with most likely.

How does the wrath of God abide on someone who is non-existent ?

"He who believes into the Son has eternal life; but he who disobeys the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him." (John 3:36)

If to be non-existent is to have the wrath of God abide upon one, then are all the unborn people who yet do not exist abide under the wrath of God too?

The fact that Christians like you gravitate to this rubbish doctrine of eternal torment shows where your thoughts really are and how shallow your compassion is for humanity.

No, the compassion is in telling the truth that Jesus told -

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

The compassion is in telling the truth rather than delivering the thoughts of men instead of the word of God.

The end of the wicked is death .. not eternal torment ... sicko.

If the end of the wicked is death, WHY does the Bible speak of "the second death" ?

You have no case. Revelation 20:12 says that THE DEAD stood before God to be judged. And those of "THE DEAD" who were judged who did not have their names in the book of life; the Lamb's book of life, go to "the second death"

" And I saw THE DEAD, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened; and another scroll was opened, which is the book of life.

And the DEAD were judged by the things which were written in the scrolls, according to their works.( v.12)

And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (v.15)

We are told that "the lake of fire" is "the SECOND death"

" And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

Will you reply here also with "sicko" silence and "sicko" evasion and "sicko" apathy or "sicko" twisting ?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
If your position is that the entire book of Revelation is literal and holds no symbolism then you are the first Christian I have encountered who holds such a belief. (I was being gentle with 'the white horse.' There is much more in there that absolutely screams metaphor).

Did I say it was all literal? Having some symbolic text doesn't mean actual events that are described are not going to occur as written either.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You say there are dozens of verses that suggest they are destroyed.
Give me five that declares destruction at judgment day.

I do not want to see you having to ADD to the verses either to make them sound that way!

Who is talking about 'at judgment day'? and why do you keep referring to that.
We are talking about the fate of the wicked: eternal torment or eternal destruction.