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20 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhy are you, as an atheist, so concerned about blasphemy?
You have not spoken 'difficult' things. You have spoken 'blasphemous' things.
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20 Jan 22
@pb1022 saidWhy, as a Christian, are you not concerned about blasphemy?
Why are you, as an atheist, so concerned about blasphemy?
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20 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYou think God needs me to defend Him?
Why, as a Christian, are you not concerned about blasphemy?
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Christians have already called you out in this thread for blasphemy. Not atheists, Christians.
It is too bad if your lynch party isn't going the way you wished.
Personally, I think fellow believers are thinking and considering the things I wrote.
You're the one that needs to keep dangling the name "Witness Lee! Witness Lee!"
as an emotional red flag.
I don't see a lot of answers to my many questions which flat out deny or denounce deification (when properly understood and appreciated).
Sorry that YOUR kangaroo court didn't go as you wanted.
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21 Jan 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidTumbleweed...
You're self deluding.
Please identify one Christian (or indeed one poster) who has shown any indication they buy in to your deification theory?
Just one.
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He's taking you towards deification as though painting by numbers.
And I notice that you hopscotch around from complaint to complaint.
You rarely see one issue through.
You jump to another problem, then to another, then to another.
You jump around from complaint to complaint like a grass hopper in a hen house.
Stick to one matter an see it through.
How can believers be "partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet. 2:4) and we Christians be unreasonable to speak in some degree of deification?
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Anyone who takes the Holy Bible seriously.
How can it say Christians are "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Pet. 1:4) and it be blasphemous toi speak in some limited regard of believers' deification?
Stick with that question rather than jump over to Revelation 14 about the punishment of worshippers of the antichrist and Jesus watching them or some other objection.
@sonship said"Partakers of the divine nature", could it mean being loving? Being merciful? Being forgiving? Being gracious? Being patient? Being constant? Being kind? Being trustworthy? Being reliable? Being full of goodwill? Being compassionate? Do you think it must mean that humans are deified after death?
How can believers be "partakers of the divine nature" ( 2 Pet. 2:4) and we Christians be unreasonable to speak in some degree of deification?
@fmf saidAnd that is exactly what Peter said, but sonship wants to add to it. Here it is
"Partakers of the divine nature", could it mean being loving? Being merciful? Being forgiving? Being gracious? Being patient? Being constant? Being kind? Being trustworthy? Being reliable? Being full of goodwill? Being compassionate? Do you think it must mean that humans are deified after death?
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.(2 Peter 1:4-7 KJV)
Those who partake in the divine nature have escaped the corruption of the world. Peter also advises them to add to their faith..
Add virtue
Add knowledge
Add temperance
Add patience
Add godliness
Add brotherly love
Add charity.
But sonship wants to be God.
22 Jan 22
@sonship said@sonship said
I don't see a lot of answers to my many questions which flat out deny or denounce deification (when properly understood and appreciated).
What does it mean " . . . that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God" (Eph. 3:19b) ?
FMF: Being devout? Does it refer to piety? Worshipping God with all one's heart? Earnest obedience? A full understanding or appreciation for God's creation? Sincere and deeply-seated belief?
@sonship said
What is that about? "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)
FMF: Treasure"... Faith? Belief? Faithfulness? Constancy? Prayerfulness? A proclivity to love one another and do good works? Earthen vessels... Human beings? Believers? The faithful? The obedient? Followers of Christ?
@sonship said
What is that about? "... the power may be of God and not out of us." (2 Cor. 4:7)
FMF: That God is a powerful deity and humans should have faith in him and worship him?
@sonship said
What does Paul means "Christ in you, the hope of glory"?
FMF: Faith in him resides in you? His influence is at work? An all-permeating desire to worship him and obey him has taken hold of the believer? The "you" in the verse has faith that is not dead? The desire to do "good works" is attributable to Christ?
@sonship said
What does Paul mean if God is omnipresent that [b]"where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom?" Isn't that everywhere since God is everywhere?
FMF: The "where" in "where the Spirit of the Lord is" could mean in the conscience and consciousness of the believers, right? If the "spirit" is there [i.e. "where" it is], then that believer enjoys "freedom", maybe?
@sonship said
And what in the world is it that follows mean? "But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory even as from the Lord Spirit" (v. 18)
FMF: The influence of one's faith and belief in the Lord has an impressive effect on those that worship him? People can see the influence of believing in "the Lord Spirit" in the words and deeds of believers?
@sonship said
What does it mean when Jesus says He will write on someone the name of the city of His God? What does it mean when He says He will make someone a pillar in the temple of His God ?
FMF: Sounds like people going to "Heaven" [so to speak] and God's "temple" or "kingdom" being populated by the faithful.
@sonship said
What is it for the saved to be built intp a habitation or dwelling place of God in spirit? What did Paul mean? And how can you be "built" into God's dwelling place ?
FMF: A believer's heart is the seat of his love for God? The faith dwells in the believer? The believers were built by God? They were built to worship God? God's "spirit" is the faith and the effect of faith in the follower of Jesus?
I think my suggested interpretations these last few pages have sounded more Christian than the deification stuff you have been peddling.
22 Jan 22
@fmf saidIndeed ... an atheist sounding Christian,
@sonship said
What does it mean " . . . that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God" (Eph. 3:19b) ?
FMF: Being devout? Does it refer to piety? Worshipping God with all one's heart? Earnest obedience? A full understanding or appreciation for God's creation? Sincere and deeply-seated belief?
@sonship said
[b]What is that about? "But we have t ...[text shortened]... these last few pages have sounded more Christian than the deification stuff you have been peddling.
A Christian sounding crazy. .
Its pretty common around here
😀
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22 Jan 22
Second Peter 1:4 says -
" . . . that through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust . . ."
For some stranger reason some are reading that as "you have to DIE first".
It doesn't say death is the qualification to be a partaker of the divine nature.
On this side of death believers can be partakers of that divine nature by laying hold of the precious and exceedingly great promises. The partaking is for escapingh the corruption that is in the world while living in the world.
The manifest splendour may wait until a future age. But the partaking of the nature, the divine nature is for the here and now.
Also while "deification" is abjected to one could also say "divinization". That is in fact another way of referring to deification.
So parakers of the divine nature cannot be said to have nothing to do with DIVIN -ization. And DIVIN-ization is another way of saying deification.