Salvation belong to the Lord

@vartiovuori said
This is proof that Christians are the most evil people on earth.

No it isn’t, of course it isn’t.

What are you a double moron?

@kellyjay said
Why is that, because we say God is good and we are not?

Who’s “we”?

I don’t “say” or agree with most of the nonsense you purport to be truth.

@kellyjay said
The cost of our redemption was so high because the crimes are so great!

You’re wrong. If you are going to teach, to attempt to reach non-believers than you need to at least try to get your facts straight.

“Crimes” is not what the human race is saved from, it is sin. They are not the same and you need to stop conflating human law, morality and misdeeds, with God’s law, righteousness and faith.

If people reading this forum are in danger of being burnt alive in hell for eternity by your version of a Jesus who loved them so much that he paid this super-high price, defeated the powers of darkness only have billions of those he loved and died for slip through his fingers so he is forced to burn them alive while he loves them....

.... then send a better messenger, because you ain’t cutting it old chap.

@rbhill said
Religion can’t save you only putting your faith Jesus Christ will.

Where is this Jesus who loves FMF so much but will burn him alive for eternity if FMF fails to believe? If I loved someone that much that would die for them, I would make darn sure they were in absolutely no doubt about who I was I what I’d done.

Your doctrines of death and torture don’t make any sense.

@rbhill said
Religion can’t save you only putting your faith Jesus Christ will.

So your "faith" [i.e. thinking certain things about yourself and about Jesus] means that you are NOT going to be tormented in burning flames for eternity despite - by your own admission - being "evil" and "guilty"? Reminds me of Thread 182354.

@rbhill said
Religion can’t save you only putting your faith Jesus Christ will.

"Putting your faith Jesus Christ" is what I mean by "religious stuff in your 'thought life'".

@kellyjay said
Why is that, because we say God is good and we are not? That the only reason we can be saved is because God loves us, and has made a way of redemption that does not depend on us! Our salvation depends upon the one thing that does not change, God's love for us even though we are sinners? How does that make Christians the most evil?

Because you say that God is good while also saying that he likes to torture people for all eternity.

@vartiovuori said
Because you say that God is good while also saying that he likes to torture people for all eternity.

No, I am saying God is good I'm not sure where you got He likes to torture people for all eternity. Why would He go through suffering He did on our behalf if that were true? We could have just flushed down the drain and been done with us if that were true. He isn't for anyone to suffer Hell. Still, He isn't going to let evil and wickedness go unpunished or allow it to go forward into an eternal Kingdom. We can see what it looks like where love isn't guiding all things, unlike this temporary one where we see evil's fruit on full display, and what it looks like when injustice and corruption are commonplace.

@kellyjay said
He isn't for anyone to suffer Hell. Still, He isn't going to let evil and wickedness go unpunished or allow it to go forward into an eternal Kingdom.

Why on Earth would your God figure torture people for all eternity in burning flames for things like calling someone a fool?

@kellyjay said
Why would He go through suffering He did on our behalf if that were true?

Was his suffering comparable to being tortured for all eternity in burning flames?

@kellyjay said
No, I am saying God is good I'm not sure where you got He likes to torture people for all eternity. Why would He go through suffering He did on our behalf if that were true? We could have just flushed down the drain and been done with us if that were true. He isn't for anyone to suffer Hell. Still, He isn't going to let evil and wickedness go unpunished or allow it to go for ...[text shortened]... evil's fruit on full display, and what it looks like when injustice and corruption are commonplace.

Unless you're saying that God isn't omnipotent, your post is full of contradictions. Human evil and wickedness, however bad they may seem, are finite in nature, and therefore any sort of eternal punishment for them is inherently unjust and evil.

@vartiovuori said
Unless you're saying that God isn't omnipotent, your post is full of contradictions. Human evil and wickedness, however bad they may seem, are finite in nature, and therefore any sort of eternal punishment for them is inherently unjust and evil.

God gave us the ability to choose to love on our own. He doesn't trample over our divine right to do as we will, to love or hate, follow Him or reject Him. We have had the way back to God given to us by God. So creation is His, the means of salvation is only through Him, which is good for there is nothing that we could do for that but God only could.

We are eternal beings; if we can't be trusted in this temporary world, no way are we allowed eternal things.

@kellyjay said
God gave us the ability to choose to love on our own. He doesn't trample over our divine right to do as we will, to love or hate, follow Him or reject Him. We have had the way back to God given to us by God. So creation is His, the means of salvation is only through Him, which is good for there is nothing that we could do for that but God only could.

We are eternal beings; if we can't be trusted in this temporary world, no way are we allowed eternal things.

And the solution to this somehow must involve eternal torture? I'm afraid that logic must have vacated your being.

@vartiovuori said
And the solution to this somehow must involve eternal torture? I'm afraid that logic must have vacated your being.

Apparently (according to at least one Christian here) God's righteousness requires such eternal suffering. Personally, I think it is more of a 'I told you so' mentality.

Go figure.

@vartiovuori said
And the solution to this somehow must involve eternal torture? I'm afraid that logic must have vacated your being.

It is not something that I happy about, but I believe it's true. If the truth can only be found in what is pleasing to us, why hasn't cancer, wars, rapes, murder, and things of that nature disappeared? There are no reasons to excuse the punishment for sin on the bases of; we don't like the idea of it.