Santa Claus

@whodey said
So essentially you are saying that Josephus wrote about a fictitious man?

I am essentially saying that Josephus wrote about Christians and their beliefs and did so about six decades after Jesus died. No one is claiming that the idea that there were Christians in 90 AD is "fictitious". If your only interest in Josephus is to fashion a few basically deceitful soundbites about what his writing actually means for your religion, then you should probably save it for when you are preaching to the choir.

@fmf said
I am essentially saying that Josephus wrote about Christians and their beliefs and did so about six decades after Jesus died. No one is claiming that the idea that there were Christians in 90 AD is "fictitious". If your only interest in Josephus is to fashion a few basically deceitful soundbites about what his writing actually means for your religion, then you should probably save it for when you are preaching to the choir.

It seems odd to me that contemporaries would not question the existence of Jesus.

In fact, it makes no sense at all.

@whodey said
The moral uprightness of Christ is flawless by all measures.

If you believe that he was a divine being and that you will be rewarded with everlasting life for having that belief, good for you.

@caesar-salad said
Aren't you doing exactly the same thing?

I'll form my own opinions, thank you.

Actually, no.

And yes, you can form your own opinions, if you can cut through all the bull standing in your way, placed there by those who would form your opinions for you.

@whodey said
It seems odd to me that contemporaries would not question the existence of Jesus.

In fact, it makes no sense at all.

What are you talking about? Nobody started writing anything down until about 40 years after he died. What "makes no sense at all" to you is your prerogative.

@whodey said
Was Mohammad made up as well?

Him meeting Gabriel and him being a prophet carrying out and writing down God's commands and him being all set to come back at the End Times etc., yes, made up as well.

@fmf said
If you believe that he was a divine being and that you will be rewarded with everlasting life for having that belief, good for you.

If you actually believe that saying this is not an attempt to discredit those who believe it, then good for you. If you're just saying that you believe that, then shame on you.

@divegeester said
Would that be the same “spin” as when you accuse posters of whom you don’t approve, of destroying this website and the other paranoid lunacy which you come out with periodically?

What it would be is the same spin that you are spinning now. Go figure.

@suzianne said
If you actually believe that saying this is not an attempt to discredit those who believe it, then good for you. If you're just saying that you believe that, then shame on you.

If you feel discredited by the stated perception and the good wishes of a non-believer, then something may be amiss with the self-confidence that your religious faith surely ought to be giving you.

I am surrounded by Christians that I live with and love, who know my stance and my good wishes for them. "Shame" on me what? What are you going on about?

@chaney3 said
If society convinced children that Santa Claus was real, but was obviously not, then why not the same doubt for Jesus?

This debate originates in why a person believes the bible is a true account of who and "why" our creator is.

Remove the bible, and we're simply left to speculate about who our creator is.

@chaney3 said
This debate originates in why a person believes the bible is a true account of who and "why" our creator is.

Remove the bible, and we're simply left to speculate about who our creator is.

Please remove the bible and search for answers with an open and inquiring mind.
Use no preconceived ideas and let us all search.

@chaney3 said
This debate originates in why a person believes the bible is a true account of who and "why" our creator is.

Remove the bible, and we're simply left to speculate about who our creator is.

There is no harm in speculating about who our creator is or, for that matter, whether there is a creator. I think it's part of human nature to do so and the upshot of doing so forms a hefty part of the human condition and culture. Removing the Bible might not work for many people. Removing the Koran wouldn't work for many of my neighbours.

@caissad4 said
Please remove the bible and search for answers with an open and inquiring mind.
Use no preconceived ideas and let us all search.

My point has always been that more people would be open to the possibility of a creator, if there wasn't a book to tell them who it is, and specifically, that our creator despises our actions, even though he created us, and knows how we behave.

It is the ultimate contradiction. He created us, yet acts surprised and offended at what we do.

@chaney3 said
My point has always been that more people would be open to the possibility of a creator, if there wasn't a book to tell them who it is, and specifically, that our creator despises our actions, even though he created us, and knows how we behave.

The vast, vast majority of human beings already believe there is a creator. Billions and billions. What issue do you have?

@chaney3 said
It is the ultimate contradiction. He created us, yet acts surprised and offended at what we do.

Who "acts surprised and offended"?