Satan / Jesus

Originally posted by Badwater
No, I am not mistaken. All Satan would have had to do is kill Jesus when they met, case closed. Nowhere in the Bible does it imply that Satan is behind any attempt to kill Jesus. This is a case of you imposing your perspective upon what you claim to be The Word.

I'd have a guess that Satan is behind that. How dare you distort the Bible to your own ends!!

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
Nowhere in the Bible does it imply that Satan is behind any attempt to kill Jesus. This is a case of you imposing your perspective upon what you claim to be The Word.

I'd have a guess that Satan is behind that. How dare you distort the Bible to your own ends!!
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The ...[text shortened]... was not a matter me taking "license". I will also justify other matters that I explained.[/b]

Originally posted by kirksey957
So Satan is kinda like the T1000 in Terminator in that he could morph in to all kinds of shapes and even look like people.

Originally posted by jaywill


Satan the father of lies, and the murderer from the beginning, was seeking to kill Jesus and instigating the opposing Jews to do it.

Badwater, you are in error. You should admit it.

It was not a matter me taking "license". I will also justify other matters that I explained.

Originally posted by Badwater
I am not in error. I am not the one distorting the Word of God to suit a preconceived notion.

I see the Devil has a grasp upon you as well.

>.>

Originally posted by jaywill
This is what you wrote and this is what I debunked from the 8th chapter of John.

[b]======================================
" Nowhere in the Bible does it imply that Satan is behind any attempt to kill Jesus. "
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And proof is not persuasion. Though I proved your sentence is in error, you stubburnly want to remain unpersuaded.

Your loss not mine.[/b]

God is on the inside of His people working His way out. Satan is on the outer part of man trying to work his way in. Man is in the middle as a battle ground.

The New Testament says the evil authority of the air, the devil, is operating IN the sons of disobedience.

Man is the battle field:

"And you, though dead in your offenses and sins, in which you once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience;

Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest;" (Eph. 2:1-3)

Satan is the "ruler of the authority of the air" and the evil "spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience"

Satan is operating in fallen man. One of the things he did was instigate men to kill the Son of God.

The "sons of disobedience" are also "the children of wrath" meaning that they are destined for the wrathful vengence of God unless they are saved in Jesus Christ.

The next sentence after this grim discription of "children of wrath" is full of hope and says - "But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) ..." (v.4,5)

I knew of someone who had a sign in their house "BUT GOD ....". Regardless of how discouraged we may be in ourselves when we see our condition ... "BUT GOD ...". I like that.

God, rich in mercy, can save sinners from the operation of the evil spirit in them. They must put their trust in the Christ who was raised from the dead.

Gibberish. And nothing from the Gospels.

I do not stand corrected. Over and out.

Originally posted by Badwater
If you're referring to that tiny blurb in Hebrews, then that is not proof. That's taking yet another line of Paul's writings out of context.

I consider Paul's writings to be quite secondary to the Gospel writings, which give no indication at all that Satan ever tries to kill Jesus. But you go ahead and distort away, you're going to anyway.

Originally posted by Badwater
Gibberish. And nothing from the Gospels.

I do not stand corrected. Over and out.

Badwater challenges these concepts that I wrote:

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When Satan realized that God had become a man he thought - "Well if he is now a man I'll just KILL him."

In doing so he sealed his own fate terribly. And he afforded God a way to accomplish His eternal redemption.

Satan killing of Christ also afforded Christ a way to release His life into others that He could be multiplied:
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This is what we should understand. And I am not yet going to put a lot of proof texts behind this just yet. Latter I will.

Whatever Jesus accomplished in His life and death and resurrection is FOR us. It is for our experience as believers subjectively.

He lived His life as a man on earth so that what He is would be available to us in His Spirit.

The effectiveness of His death is ALSO part of the contents of His Spirit. His death can be utilized by His believers to KILL OFF the Satanic enfluence in our being.

Listen, this is REALLY good news. Listen. In many things we cannot be reformed. In many things we cannot be improved. Something has to be terminated in us. Something has to be killed off. Some things have to be "crossed out".

The effectiveness of Christ's death is in the Spirit. If we apply the Holy Spirit to our living there is a cross in there to terminated some of the evil things from Adam's fall. The cross has the terminating power.

So, in Christ being crucified, God put into our hands an "instrument" to KILL OFF SATAN's enfluence. It backfired on the Devil. His killing Christ afforded the believers a way to put to death in themselves the evil practices inherited from the Satanic poisoning of man.

This is developed in the 6th chapter of the book of Romans.

The killing of the Son of God BACKFIRED on Satan and put into the hands of the believers the terminating power of Christ's death to kill off Satan subjectively from our lives.

Again, man is the battlefield. Satan is trying to corrupt man by working from without to the center of man. The Son of God has gotten into some believers. And He is working from within, working His way OUT. One of the things He is doing with the believer's cooperation is TERMINATING the old man.

A critical mass will happen. At a certain point, at a certain "event horizon" the overcoming of a remnant of Christians will facilitate a way for Jesus to come back to the earth.

What is really happening in this universe with the Triune God and man is more fascinating then any fiction divised from the imagination.

The overcoming Christians become "the masters of the univers" so to speak. Now a passage about Satan being CRUSHED under the feet of the saints:

"Now the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you." (Rom. 16:20)

Did you see that? God intends to crush Satan under the feet of the overcoming churching people.

Originally posted by kirksey957
So Satan is kinda like the T1000 in Terminator in that he could morph in to all kinds of shapes and even look like people.

Originally posted by galveston75
Your pretty much right. 2Cor 11:14.

Originally posted by jaywill

...
John chapter 8 is strong enough proof even if the Hebrews passage presents some problems.

You should admit that John 8 clearly shows Satan behind the human desire to kill the Son of God....

John 8

The Woman Caught In Adultery

Then each of them went home, while Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him and he sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery; and making her stand before all of them, they said to him, ‘Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?’ They said this to test him, so that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, ‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.’ And once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the elders; and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus straightened up and said to her, ‘Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ She said, ‘No one, sir.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again.’

Jesus the Light of the World

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.’ Then the Pharisees said to him, ‘You are testifying on your own behalf; your testimony is not valid.’ Jesus answered, ‘Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid because I know where I have come from and where I am going, but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. You judge by human standards; I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgement is valid; for it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me. In your law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is valid. I testify on my own behalf, and the Father who sent me testifies on my behalf.’ Then they said to him, ‘Where is your Father?’ Jesus answered, ‘You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.’ He spoke these words while he was teaching in the treasury of the temple, but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come.

Jesus Foretells His Death

Again he said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will search for me, but you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.’ Then the Jews said, ‘Is he going to kill himself? Is that what he means by saying, “Where I am going, you cannot come”?’ He said to them, ‘You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.’ They said to him, ‘Who are you?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Why do I speak to you at all? I have much to say about you and much to condemn; but the one who sent me is true, and I declare to the world what I have heard from him.’ They did not understand that he was speaking to them about the Father. So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own, but I speak these things as the Father instructed me. And the one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him.’ As he was saying these things, many believed in him.

True Disciples

Then Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, ‘If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.’ They answered him, ‘We are descendants of Abraham and have never been slaves to anyone. What do you mean by saying, “You will be made free”?’

Jesus answered them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not have a permanent place in the household; the son has a place there for ever. So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet you look for an opportunity to kill me, because there is no place in you for my word. I declare what I have seen in the Father’s presence; as for you, you should do what you have heard from the Father.’

Jesus and Abraham

They answered him, ‘Abraham is our father.’ Jesus said to them, ‘If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing what Abraham did, but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are indeed doing what your father does.’ They said to him, ‘We are not illegitimate children; we have one father, God himself.’ Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot accept my word. You are from your father the devil, and you choose to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is from God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear them is that you are not from God.’

The Jews answered him, ‘Are we not right in saying that you are a Samaritan and have a demon?’ Jesus answered, ‘I do not have a demon; but I honour my Father, and you dishonour me. Yet I do not seek my own glory; there is one who seeks it and he is the judge. Very truly, I tell you, whoever keeps my word will never see death.’ The Jews said to him, ‘Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, and so did the prophets; yet you say, “Whoever keeps my word will never taste death.” Are you greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets also died. Who do you claim to be?’ Jesus answered, ‘If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, he of whom you say, “He is our God”, though you do not know him. But I know him; if I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you. But I do know him and I keep his word. Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day; he saw it and was glad.’ Then the Jews said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, before Abraham was, I am.’ So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Originally posted by Badwater
Gibberish. And nothing from the Gospels.

I do not stand corrected. Over and out.