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@kellyjay saidRE information processing: I was a Cisco Systems Certified Instructor for over twenty years, before I retired. "Cisco Systems" mean anything to you? I taught major corporations and govt. agencies including the military how to configure their Cisco kit (data centers and stuff). I would recognize information processing when I saw it, and it's not happening inside cells. What's happening inside cells is chemistry, nothing more.
You did not, you gave a link in the hopes something in it somewhere addresses anything related to our topic head-on, pathetic. Head-on would look like you speaking to the topic itself in your own words, saying things related to the topic. You have even shown you understand information processing at all, yet you deny it in biology even when confronted with examples.
Can ...[text shortened]... checking, anything at all with information theory? You once again talk much but not about the topic.
Linking to peer-reviewed articles does not constitute "grandiose generalizations"; it's what real science is all about.
You see patterns in DNA. I do too. It's the same as seeing 'patterns' (triangles and other shapes) in constellations of stars; it's the same as 'seeing' patterns of waves on the surface of a bay and patterns of waves in sand dunes and 'arrays' of molecules in salt crystals. These patterns are not indicators of design, much less of a Transcendental Designer. They are just representational models we impose on things to help us understand what's going on. What's going on is chemistry and physics, nothing more.
Get back to us when you and Prof. Tour have that transcendental causality detector up and running.
@kellyjay saidA Ferarri F1 engine is fine-tuned. The universe is not; it's an explosion, expanding at near light speed, and most of it is dark, cold, and empty. There is nothing to fine-tune about dark, cold, and empty.
You two deserve each other, how about all the fine-tuning variables within the universe that allow it to support life? Yet mindlessness could through time give you, your mind and you trust it. Sad.
@moonbus saidUnless you share some of that knowledge to bear on the specific examples brought up, your knowledge and experience are worthless here. All you doing is bringing another story about monkeys and rocks, making mention of peer articles but no specific statements on the examples, all you got are just so stories and saying deny, deny, deny. Patterns we can see in snowflakes, that is not what I've been talking about and I am finding you very disingenuous, instead of talking directly to biological reaction paths taking place because of signals in life, you bring up more rock and monkey-like examples with constellations of stars, waves in a dune is not speaking to why a start-stop mechanism by a piece of information-driven.
RE information processing: I was a Cisco Systems Certified Instructor for over twenty years, before I retired. "Cisco Systems" mean anything to you? I taught major corporations and govt. agencies including the military how to configure their Cisco kit (data centers and stuff). I would recognize information processing when I saw it, and it's not happening inside cells. What's ...[text shortened]...
Get back to us when you and Prof. Tour have that transcendental causality detector up and running.
Once again you are not dealing with information processing in life, you are sticking your hands over your eyes crying no, no, no. Every designed device that is a mechanism is there due to a designer, who is not a part of the device itself, an example brought up earlier is Henry Ford and the Ford motor car, you can know all about the motor does not void agency of the designer.
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@kellyjay saidThe Sun has lots of working parts and does it all by its self.
Video on blood clotting < 2mins
https://youtu.be/7eQIX31L-04
blood sugar > 12 mins
https://youtu.be/HJGjNTJgf48
Lots of working parts
@divegeester saidPsychologists talk of people having defence mechanisms. This does not mean that they have little pocket watches in their heads consisting of parts working together. There are some among us who have a simplistic, which is to say literalist, understanding of what it is to be a mechanism.
The Sun has lots of working parts and does it all by its self.
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327d
@moonbus saidToo bad Ferrari is not fine-tuned enough these days, to win more F1 races. It's Red Bull which is more finely-tuned.
A Ferarri F1 engine is fine-tuned. The universe is not; it's an explosion, expanding at near light speed, and most of it is dark, cold, and empty. There is nothing to fine-tune about dark, cold, and empty.
In any universe capable of producing finely-tuned entities, there exists an inherent fine-tuning. The builders, mechanics, engineers, drivers, and race crew who constitute the finely-tuned Ferrari Formula 1 team are part of this universe, correct? The universe is fine-tuned to produce finely-tuned members that are integral to its existence.
The same principle applies to the absolute laws of physics that govern a finely-tuned Ferrari F1 engine. Internal combustion, a controlled explosion grounded in thermodynamics, is evident in the fine-tuning of horsepower generation. The symbol for Ferrari is a rampant black steed. Similarly, other parts of the vehicle must also be finely-tuned to accommodate the engine, especially considering its position. We could propose the fine-tuning of the entire car, which aligns with Newton's Laws of Motion. This is where the rubber meets the road, and the tires require fine-tuning as well. Centripetal force and traction are key factors in these fine-tuning considerations.
We could extend this fine-tuning to the shape of the race car and the aerodynamics, and many other points needing fine-tuning. Not forgetting that the car is also fine-tuned for the specif skills of the driver who will pilot the fine-tuned car. Hopefully to the finish line, in first place.
Without further delay, every aspect of Formula One racing cars and races must be finely-tuned to align with the laws governing Formula One Racing. This ensures that fine-tuning is in sync with fairness, promoting fair competition among all teams participating in a finely-tuned schedule and track requirements.
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@pettytalk saidTalking about a "fine-tuned" universe begs the question of its having been designed. Nor is life integral to its existence. What is correct is that life is contingent, it is dependent on certain conditions being met which are favorable to life. There is nothing at all "fine-tuned" about these conditions. Were the conditions different, there might have been no life. So what? Life is not integral to the existence of the universe. Or, had the conditions been different, there might still have been life, just "not life as we know it, Jim."
Too bad Ferrari is not fine-tuned enough these days, to win more F1 races. It's Red Bull which is more finely-tuned.
In any universe capable of producing finely-tuned entities, there exists an inherent fine-tuning. The builders, mechanics, engineers, drivers, and race crew who constitute the finely-tuned Ferrari Formula 1 team are part of this universe, correct? The univ ...[text shortened]... ng fair competition among all teams participating in a finely-tuned schedule and track requirements.
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327d
@moonbus saidDon't get bogged down in your own swamp, a primordial soup. Life is fine-tuned by design. It was not just an accident. It was meant to be. Even soup needs a chef, the one who made the soup into a lively dish for our taste buds, using all the right ingredients to fine-tune it to our own taste. Someday you will meet the chef., and it will not be by accident. Check your brakes for fine-tuning,
Talking about a "fine-tuned" universe begs the question of its having been designed. Nor is life integral to its existence. What is correct is that life is contingent, it is dependent on certain conditions being met which are favorable to life. There is nothing at all "fine-tuned" about these conditions. Were the conditions different, there might have been no life. So what? L ...[text shortened]... the conditions been different, there might still have been life, just "not life as we know it, Jim."
Fine-tuning the brakes in Formula 1 is a critical aspect of the car's performance. Here's how it's done:
Brakes and Safety: Brakes are crucial for both safety and performance. They are responsible for slowing down the vehicle before cornering and bringing it to a complete stop. Fine-tuning the brakes can not only ensure safety but also improve the car's performance by enhancing stopping distance, cornering stability, and fuel economy.
@moonbus saidWhen apples 🍎 fall from 🌳 trees so what, that is just what apples do. You are very selective on what is important and meaningful. It is no small wonder that the fathers of science believed in a universe with laws due to they believed in a law giver. Mindsets that ignore reality right in front of them would have never gotten science off the ground, the universe just is and that is that, would be the meta narrative with your worldview.
Talking about a "fine-tuned" universe begs the question of its having been designed. Nor is life integral to its existence. What is correct is that life is contingent, it is dependent on certain conditions being met which are favorable to life. There is nothing at all "fine-tuned" about these conditions. Were the conditions different, there might have been no life. So what? L ...[text shortened]... the conditions been different, there might still have been life, just "not life as we know it, Jim."
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@kellyjay saidWhat actual evidence do you have that the scientific explanations of how the natural world functions are incorrect?
When apples 🍎 fall from 🌳 trees so what, that is just what apples do. You are very selective on what is important and meaningful. It is no small wonder that the fathers of science believed in a universe with laws due to they believed in a law giver. Mindsets that ignore reality right in front of them would have never gotten science off the ground, the universe just is and that is that, would be the meta narrative with your worldview.
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@kellyjay saidYou are very selective about which molecules you think God jiggles. Apparently you think God jiggles DNA molecules but not the molecules that cause earthquakes or diseases or a child to be born with sickle cell anemia or Down Syndrome. The mindset that threatened Galileo with torture because he believed the Earth moves was what retarded a correct understanding of such things as earthquakes, diseases, and birth defects; these are not God's punishments for our 'sins'. It is not so very long ago that 19 people were executed in Salem Mass. for witchcraft. Do you realize that people are still executed in Saudi Arabia for witchcraft, even in this century? That's the meta-narrative of your "I refuse to accept..." worldview, and people like you would still be executing people for heresy if church and state had not been separated by secular revolutions in America and France. It is important and meaningful that people like you aren't allowed to burn people like me at the stake any more.
When apples 🍎 fall from 🌳 trees so what, that is just what apples do. You are very selective on what is important and meaningful. It is no small wonder that the fathers of science believed in a universe with laws due to they believed in a law giver. Mindsets that ignore reality right in front of them would have never gotten science off the ground, the universe just is and that is that, would be the meta narrative with your worldview.
@moonbus saidEvery molecule in the universe, He holds it all together by the power of His world, but once again you are dodging. These are just another monkey, dunes, just so story to say anything without addressing the topics of levels and start-stop mechanisms. Why do you bother, it becomes painfully clear you have nothing to say on the topic so you bring up so many other things. I'm asking about something in the universe we see and understand, evidence, and you want to talk about burning people at the stake.
You are very selective about which molecules you think God jiggles. Apparently you think God jiggles DNA molecules but not the molecules that cause earthquakes or diseases or a child to be born with sickle cell anemia or Down Syndrome. The mindset that threatened Galileo with torture because he believed the Earth moves was what retarded a correct understanding of such things ...[text shortened]... ant and meaningful that people like you aren't allowed to burn people like me at the stake any more.
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@kellyjay saidLook, KJ, I can't be arsed to go through 16 pages of this back and forth. You say you're asking about something in the universe, well, what are you asking about, and how are you asking it? Even the most curious person can ask questions in a way that precludes a serious answer.
Every molecule in the universe, He holds it all together by the power of His world, but once again you are dodging. These are just another monkey, dunes, just so story to say anything without addressing the topics of levels and start-stop mechanisms. Why do you bother, it becomes painfully clear you have nothing to say on the topic so you bring up so many other things. I'm ...[text shortened]... he universe we see and understand, evidence, and you want to talk about burning people at the stake.
@suzianne saidI've been asking since page one from him to talk about the informational processing taking place in life that he denies. He can only deny but cannot explain why it is deniable, from the beginning he changes the subject to monkeys, dunes, peer review papers that don't address the issue, and burning people at the stake. Nothing about why several different parts of the body act when the need arises and stop when it doesn't, not how some levels are maintained with different body parts acting to maintain it.
Look, KJ, I can't be arsed to go through 16 pages of this back and forth. You say you're asking about something in the universe, well, what are you asking about, and how are you asking it? Even the most curious person can ask questions in a way that precludes a serious answer.
He has nothing to say about the things he is being asked about so far neither does anyone else. Off and on you can hear about natural selection as if that is an answer to that, but natural selection has no creative abilities, there is nothing about it that addresses the formation of new forms and functions.
Natural Selection is a truism it isn't a theory that was discovered, when resources are thin the stronger and faster will get them, but as resources increase even the weaker ones can acquire them so it becomes simply a matter of opportunity. In all of that, there is nothing that directs a mutation to build upon an earlier one so that after time a new function or form arises.
There is a genetic code that writes out what is going to be formed, and due to the design of what functions take place, this is a matter of information placed in life, that does not arise out of chaos and chance but with forethought and design. People even acknowledge as they see it, but call it an illusion, and I submit to you the illusion is in the denial not what we see.