Should we

@deepthought said
I need to do a little research on the concept of "Love God with all your Heart." in order to comment on that, it's an interesting question as to exactly what is meant by that. The conversation's opened up new understanding for me.

The thing about God and reality, He cannot do anything in contradiction to His nature...

I'm not certain this is right. Bear ...[text shortened]... t we believe God is.

I keep thinking of the Beatles song, Love is All You Need. Doobedoobedoo. 😍

I was thinking about this conversation if you notice the two great Commandments love God then our fellow man! Both have us looking out to others acknowledging they all have value, keeping our eyes on them, not ourselves. Challenging to be self-centered when you are looking to care for the ones in your sphere of influence. Loving others as ourselves puts a framework on this that can be understood.

While looking at others and judging others to see if we approve or disapprove of them, or to see if we deem them worthy, it is all totally self-centered in nature. The worth of another boils down to if we like them for this reason or that, completely self-centered. All others have no worth unless we give it to them, our sinful nature.

@kellyjay said
You believe that there is a level of respect or dignity owed to all regardless, simply for being a person?

Yes.

@kellyjay said
Just so I know and don't assume the wrong thing. When you show courtesy are you not showing respect simply due to the fact it is another person, regardless of their 'worth or measure' in your eyes. Which I admire about you so you know when done.

Showing courtesy always is a tougher thing to gauge from a Christian vantage point.

For example, at what point do you pull out "the whip"?

@kellyjay said
I was thinking about this conversation if you notice the two great Commandments love God then our fellow man! Both have us looking out to others acknowledging they all have value, keeping our eyes on them, not ourselves. Challenging to be self-centered when you are looking to care for the ones in your sphere of influence. Loving others as ourselves puts a framework on this ...[text shortened]... at, completely self-centered. All others have no worth unless we give it to them, our sinful nature.

I'm still getting my head around how to use Bible Hub. This is Deuteronomy 6:5: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy might."
Strong's lexicon gives the Hebrew as:

And you shall love
וְאָ֣הַבְתָּ֔ (wə·’ā·haḇ·tā)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Conjunctive perfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 157: 1) to love 1a) (Qal) 1a1) human love for another, includes family, and sexual 1a2) human appetite for objects such as food, drink, sleep, wisdom 1a3) human love for or to God 1a4) act of being a friend 1a4a) lover (participle) 1a4b) friend (participle) 1a5) God's love toward man 1a5a) to individual men 1a5b) to people Israel 1a5c) to righteousness 1b) (Niphal) 1b1) lovely (participle) 1b2) loveable (participle) 1c) (Piel) 1c1) friends 1c2) lovers (fig. of adulterers) 2) to like

https://biblehub.com/parallel/deuteronomy/6-5.htm

So the original Hebrew word seems to have the same width as the English word love. Leaving me wondering whether this commandment ought to be seen as phileo, agape, or storge?

I have sometimes judged people on how they've treated a third party. Since these have been situations where I've had involvement it's better to abstract away from them. On the assumption that a person has no particular vested interest, are they making a self-centred judgement?

@deepthought said
I'm still getting my head around how to use Bible Hub. This is Deuteronomy 6:5: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy might."
Strong's lexicon gives the Hebrew as:[quote]And you shall love
וְאָ֣הַבְתָּ֔ (wə·’ā·haḇ·tā)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Conjunctive perfect - second person masculine singular
Strong's He ...[text shortened]... ssumption that a person has no particular vested interest, are they making a self-centred judgement?

With God, He first loved us while we were sinners before God with nothing about us that could benefit God in any way. Agape love leaves our self-centered nature out of the equation, and it focuses on the other, not ourselves.

@whodey said
Showing courtesy always is a tougher thing to gauge from a Christian vantage point.

For example, at what point do you pull out "the whip"?

When I believe that it would benefit me if I were on the other side.

@kellyjay said
When I believe that it would benefit me if I were on the other side.

Did it benefit the money changers?

I thought it was to benefit the masses trying to find God.

@whodey said
Did it benefit the money changers?

I thought it was to benefit the masses trying to find God.

Well then, being led by the Spirit instead of rules is what you are looking for.

@kellyjay said
Well then, being led by the Spirit instead of rules is what you are looking for.

Problem is, when you think you have God all figured out, then God happens.

Next think you know you are being asked to sacrifice your son on an alter.

Not that I went through with it, just say'in.

@whodey said
Problem is, when you think you have God all figured out, then God happens.

Next think you know you are being asked to sacrifice your son on an alter.

Not that I went through with it, just say'in.

I think, when we believe we have God all figured out, we will because it can be no other way, be shown the error of our ways. We are not that smart!

@kellyjay said
With God, He first loved us while we were sinners before God with nothing about us that could benefit God in any way. Agape love leaves our self-centered nature out of the equation, and it focuses on the other, not ourselves.

Well, I'm not arguing strongly, but it seems a little calculating. Surely there's a storge element in the way a small child loves their parents?

@deepthought said
Well, I'm not arguing strongly, but it seems a little calculating. Surely there's a storge element in the way a small child loves their parents?

I'm not sure I am following your point.

@kellyjay said
With God, He first loved us while we were sinners before God with nothing about us that could benefit God in any way.

And yet, according to you, this same God who “loves us while we are sinners” will also burn alive all the sinners he loves while watches.