23 Feb 05
Originally posted by geniusI am feeling slightly less vehement today so I will calm my tongue somewhat, I feel bad about using the word bloody last time.
yes-i have read the old testament. there is nothing the prophets say the messiah will do that jesus did not do.
and why can they not missinterpret somthing if it's their religion? and the entire jewish faith was not shunned - only those who shunned jesus were shunned...
and anyway - back to the only a man bit. he may have been only a man, as you claim, ...[text shortened]... sucks for this...anyway! he was wise.her wasn't "only a man" as you say. he had something...)
Jesus' ideas were not new, he was certainly not the first moralist, nor the inventor of the public speech. I don't doubt he had charisma and perhaps a flair for the enticing dramatics of the supernatural. He was however not the only person to be put to death by the romans for speaking out, the fact that there is a story about his life is neither here nor there. Ghandi was not the son of god, yet he was at least as wise, certainly more tolerant and unassuming and also suffered greatly, but he was just a man. Mozart created and understood music in a way most poeple cannot understand. Einstein thought in a series processes which are unfathomable to the average human. Men can do amazing things when they try, but amazement is not a demonstration of supernatural origins.
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by geniusPlease, this thread is for "Sickening Stories from the Bible"; you can do that preaching nonsense in any of about a dozen other threads. Here we give actual Biblical stories that are completely revolting and then have spirited debate on what possibly could have been going through Old Testament God's "mind". So, please either give us an actual "Sickening Story from the Bible" or comment on one of the ones already presented.
yes-i have read the old testament. there is nothing the prophets say the messiah will do that jesus did not do.
and why can they not missinterpret somthing if it's their religion? and the entire jewish faith was not shunned - only those who shunned jesus were shunned...
and anyway - back to the only a man bit. he may have been only a man, as you claim, ...[text shortened]... sucks for this...anyway! he was wise.her wasn't "only a man" as you say. he had something...)
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by Starrmani think your onto something here, jesus seemed non-descript and pliable, qualities and actions could be thrust on him because he was like a blanksheet and could be manipulated
I am feeling slightly less vehement today so I will calm my tongue somewhat, I feel bad about using the word bloody last time.
Jesus' ideas were not new, he was certainly not the first moralist, nor the inventor of the public speech. I don't doubt he had charisma and perhaps a flair for the enticing dramatics of the supernatural. He was however not ...[text shortened]... n do amazing things when they try, but amazement is not a demonstration of supernatural origins.
the jews were so hungry for a messiah they cast jesus in this role, and being a pointless drifter he grasped the opportunity to travel a bit, several stand-ins may also have been used, and hey presto he's associating with prostitutes...anice change from banging away on a piece of wood all day
23 Feb 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderHere you go:
Please cut and paste; that sounds like a good one!
Then he went up there from Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him and said to him "Go up you baldhead! Go up your baldhead!" So he turned around and looked and them and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths. Then he went from there to Mt Carmel and from there he returned to Samaria.
II Kings 2:23-25
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by no1marauderStarmann - he was killed by the jews, not the Romans. (well-he was killed via the Romans...but yeah...)
Please, this thread is for "Sickening Stories from the Bible"; you can do that preaching nonsense in any of about a dozen other threads. Here we give actual Biblical stories that are completely revolting and then have spirited debate on what possibly could have been going through Old Testament God's "mind". So, please either give us an actual "Sickening Story from the Bible" or comment on one of the ones already presented.
sickening bible stories? ooooooooookay - john the baptist was in prison, as he critisised the then king (i forget his name) for marrying his brothers wife. the brothers wife's daughter danced for him, and he was so pleased thta he said he's give her anything she wanted. at her mothers advice, she asked for john the baptist's head on a plate...
jesus did nothing wrong, and yet was crucified.
stephen did nothing wrong, and yet was stoned to death.
i'll find you some more if you want?...anyway - threads change topic. it's the nature of forums. so stop whining or i'll start on the maths jokes...
23 Feb 05
There was this chap who was out collecting sticks on the Sabbeth day. Perhaps he was feeling a little chilly and wanted to warm his hands, or perhaps he wanted to heat some broth. Maybe his wife was having a baby and he wanted to heat the water for the hot towels. Unfortunately the Bible doesn't tell us why he was collecting sticks. But the Lord didn't like anyone doing anything on the Sabbath so he ordered Moses and his thuggish mates to stone the poor chap to death. This they subsequently did.
Keen for Salvation from such a nice God? Check it out in Num 15:35-3
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by geniusWould you care to comment on the Jepthath sacrificing of his daughter story or Midianite Massacre story or the Little boys getting mauled by bears story? Do you think these stories show a loving and merciful God or a twisted loony?
Starmann - he was killed by the jews, not the Romans. (well-he was killed via the Romans...but yeah...)
sickening bible stories? ooooooooookay - john the baptist was in prison, as he critisised the then king (i forget his name) for marrying his brothers wife. the brothers wife's daughter danced for him, and he was so pleased thta he said he's give her an ...[text shortened]... s change topic. it's the nature of forums. so stop whining or i'll start on the maths jokes...
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by geniusActually he was killed by the Romans, Pilate was appointed by Romans, Romans carried out the execution and Romans nailed him up and pulled him down again. I'll admit the jews had their part in it, but he was most definitely killed by Romans. And just to be clear, he was not killed for nothing. He was killed for speaking out against jewish teachings, a reason perfectly mirrored by the christians during the times of the Spanish Inquisition.
Starmann - he was killed by the jews, not the Romans. (well-he was killed via the Romans...but yeah...)
sickening bible stories? ooooooooookay - john the baptist was in prison, as he critisised the then king (i forget his name) for marrying his brothers wife. the brothers wife's daughter danced for him, and he was so pleased thta he said he's give her an ...[text shortened]... s change topic. it's the nature of forums. so stop whining or i'll start on the maths jokes...
Interestingly enough and on a totally seperate subject (sorry no1, more diversion), to put a clamp on the worryingly out of control inquisition, the pope of the time (name eludes my memory for the moment), ruled that only 1 torture period was allowed to extract confessions per day. Torquemada, unhappy with this extended that one torture period in length to cover the 18 waking hours of the day. I just have to chuckle at the irony of both pope and inquisitor.
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by StarrmanStart your own thread with "Sickening Inquistion Stories"; we're trying to stay on topic here! I didn't even know there were bears in the Middle East or were these magic bears that God just conjured up to maul these particular children? Do any of our resident Born-Agains have anything on this that they could cut and paste for us? Or would anybody else care to comment on this important theological issue?
Actually he was killed by the Romans, Pilate was appointed by Romans, Romans carried out the execution and Romans nailed him up and pulled him down again. I'll admit the jews had their part in it, but he was most definitely killed by Romans. And just to be clear, he was not killed for nothing. He was killed for speaking out against jewish teachings, a re ...[text shortened]... he 18 waking hours of the day. I just have to chuckle at the irony of both pope and inquisitor.
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by Starrmani said he was killed via the romans. sure, they killed him - but they were meerly the executioners. it was due to pressure from the jews that he was killed. (remember pilate washing his hands of it?)
Actually he was killed by the Romans, Pilate was appointed by Romans, Romans carried out the execution and Romans nailed him up and pulled him down again. I'll admit the jews had their part in it, but he was most definitely killed by Romans. And just to be clear, he was not killed for nothing. He was killed for speaking out against jewish teachings, a re ...[text shortened]... he 18 waking hours of the day. I just have to chuckle at the irony of both pope and inquisitor.
and he was speaking out against jewish teachings, but they were the teachings generally, not what was actually written. and anyway, he was the fulfillment of the covenant so a lot of teachings etc became, well, irrelevant.
and no1 - let the thread run it's course!
maths joke no. 1 - what do you call a proof that throws itself off a cliff?
a lemma!
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by geniusThe "course" that almost every thread in the Debate forum takes lately is into preaching and proselyting by a fanatical few and I'd like to avoid that in this thread. You can consider this thread a counterpoint to all those started by people belonging to a small sect of the Xtian religion who incessantly tell us what a loving and merciful God there is in the Bible (although if we don't unquestioningly believe in him we're all eternally damned). This thread presents counter-evidence from their own holy "book", so please stay on-topic.
i said he was killed via the romans. sure, they killed him - but they were meerly the executioners. it was due to pressure from the jews that he was killed. (remember pilate washing his hands of it?)
and he was speaking out against jewish teachings, but they were the teachings generally, not what was actually written. and anyway, he was the fulfillm ...[text shortened]... urse!
maths joke no. 1 - what do you call a proof that throws itself off a cliff?
a lemma!
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by no1maraudergenius is right on theads change topics. Usually by a flood post of a thumper which is LONG and makes it difficult to follow the thread. It's done for the purpose of burying idea's they don't like.
Would you care to comment on the Jepthath sacrificing of his daughter story or Midianite Massacre story or the Little boys getting mauled by bears story? Do you think these stories show a loving and merciful God or a twisted loony?
23 Feb 05
Originally posted by no1marauderGod is merciful, and slow to anger. remember how in jonah he let a whole city live after they repented. maybe if these guys had repented, they would have lived. also-these small boys were not little children. the hebrew is "youth" and is also used for older servants. and as for the baldhead insult, well-he lived for a further 50 years so it is unlikely that he was, actually, bald. and 42 boys were killed by the bears, thus i think they might have been a rather reproachful mob...maybe it was protection? this was after he had cleansed their water supply! (we're prsuming he did this via a miracle as, well, we're presuming that the bears were also a miracle)
Damn, what did Old Testament God have against little boys? He's either putting them to the sword or sicing bears on 'em! For calling Elisha "baldhead"; couldn't He have given them a time out or something? Well you know what it says: "Spare the bears, spoil the child."