Originally posted by wolfgang59Well exactly. So for someone who does not presuppose that God has given "sinners" a command, there is no such thing as "sin" except in terms of psychology and anthropology.
The problem with this definition is that it presupposes
that god has given the sinner a command.
Which is obviously not the case.
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Originally posted by FMFOriginally posted by FMF (Page 1)
People would be forgiven for thinking that you are dishing out yet another one of your clumsy ad hominems-writ-large against all those who disagree with you ~ and offer "human criticism"! Was that the real purpose of the thread, I wonder. And I wonder how many threads you have started for this very purpose over the years.
I asked you on page 1 if you personally ...[text shortened]... ich suggests that your interest in discussing the topic is not sincere ~ as is so often the case. 😀
An interesting on-topic sub-topic here would be if those in this community who believe in "sin" and believe that they commit "sins" were to talk about whether any of their personal behaviour in this forum constitutes "sin" or "sinful behaviour".
Originally posted by FMF (Page 3)
"I asked you on page 1 if you personally thought any "sins" are committed by believers in "sin" on this forum and you blanked the question out completely..."
---> Please see the italicized listings of sins below which may occur face to face, on paper, on the phone as well as online.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 2)
Would you regard any overt personal behaviors which involve other people [such as murder, drunkenness, theft, fornication or adultery]; or covert personal behaviors which often cluster [such as pride, jealously, bitterness, hatred, vindictiveness, implacability, envy, guilt feelings, worry, anxiety, fear or self pity] as sin? Also, what do you consider as the source of sin?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 2)
"Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin? "So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. Behold how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life..." James 3:5-6"
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I believe the origin of the word sin is a word picture of an arrow missing the mark of some target. To "miss the mark" I recall is the etymology of the word sin.
If this is so in biblical usage it implies that with all actions of man there is something like a bull's eye on a target perhaps that man shoots towards with his arrow And some power in man, some "force" causes the created man to "miss the mark."
The sin is a failure to hit the mark of the moral target. And there is a force causing us to miss the OUGHT that we should hit.
So there is in the Bible the sin as a near living thing, parasitic like attached to man causing man to commit the acts of sins.
Saying one does not believe in God so he has no sin doesn't work. For whatever one calls these acts his human conscience informs him that something is wrong morally and offends the conscience.
Originally posted by sonshipActs where my human conscience informs me that something is wrong and offends that conscience are most likely to be immoral acts or perhaps feelings of regret or failure. To say "Saying one does not believe in God so he has no sin doesn't work" is utter nonsense, unless you are simply looking at the acts of people who have different beliefs than you through the prism of your personal superstition.
Saying one does not believe in God so he has no sin doesn't work. For whatever one calls these acts his human conscience informs him that something is wrong morally and offends the conscience.
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Originally posted by FMFCuriously, many of those who say they have no idea what sin is , seem to know what it is as they level charges against God for Sodom's destruction, Noah's Flood, Canaanite conquest and a host of other incidents.
"Sin" is a matter for people who believe that God has communicated His wishes to them. The concern over being "sinful" is only a dilemma for these people.
"When it is ME ... what in the world is SIN ??"
"When I don't like what God did here and there ... I'm real clear what SINS God did."
Originally posted by sonshipWho has "no idea what sin is"? I have offered a definition. Do you contest it? What's your definition of "sin", sonship?
Curiously, many of those who say they have no idea what sin is , seem to know what it is as they level charges against God for Sodom's destruction, Noah's Flood, Canaanite conquest and a host of other incidents.
"When it is ME ... what in the world is SIN ??"
"When I don't like what God did here and there ... I'm real clear what SINS God did."
I have never heard a critic of the Christian/Hebrew God figure's actions in 'the flood' describe those actions as "sin". Never. If you can cite an example from this forum then go ahead.
I can't remember anyone calling the supposed genocide a "sin". Not even once. Maybe you can recall a case?