Originally posted by sonshipBearing in mind that I do not think God has communicated His wishes to us, give me a definition of "sin" that I could use to refer to my own immoral acts as "sins" whilst remaining truthful. I don't think you can.
You just stated that in your own personal case, you know your conscience works for you.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtWell I would prefer we refer to that as "arete" then instead of mixing terminology. "Sin" is a term defined in terms of various gods - the morals of which are usually questionable.
...<snipped>...Also my statement's based around my arete idea from my post preceding the one you're replying to. If the work you are doing improves your moral well-being then it's fine, if it's just drudgery then it's not.
Originally posted by sonshipWhat does this have to do with "sin"?
In the Far East people bow to one another to show respect.
In the West people stand erect before each other but shakes hands to show respect.
The bottom line is to show respect.
The method of showing respect may differ according to culture.
My conscience may bother me if I refuse to shake someone's hand to whom respect is due. But it wou ...[text shortened]... failed to bow to them. That is only because being a westerner, shaking hands, is the mode used.
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Some representative sins enumerated that can be forgiven of course and overcome in the power of the grace of Christ.
Romans 1:29 - "Being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, whisperers, slanderers, hateful to God, insolent, arrogant, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, sensless, faithless, affectionless, merciless; who, though fully knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also have fellow delight in those who practice them.
So we all need forgiveness and rescue.
Another list.
First Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators nor idolators nor adulterers nor effiminate nor homosexuals nor thieves nor covetous, not drunkards, not revilers, not rapacious will inherit the kingdom of God."
So we need salvation without in position and within in disposition.
A similar list in Galatians 6:19-21 - "And the works of the flesh are manifest, which are such things as fornication, uncleaness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, factions, divisions, sects, envyings, bouts of drunkeness, carousings, and things like these, of which I tell you beforehand, even as I have said before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
So we need to be reconciled to God through justification and sanctified for participation in the coming kingdom.
Then a last similar list in Ephesians 5:3-6 - "But fornication and all uncleaness or greediness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints. And obscenity and foolish talking or sly filthy jesting, which are not becomming ... For this you realize, knowing that every fornicator or unclean person or greedy person (who is an idolater) has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Let no one deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; For you were once darkness but are now light in the Lord; walk as children of light."
So we need forgiveness for eternal redemption in Christ and to learn a new walk in His indwelling presence as the Holy Spirit in the born again.
Originally posted by wolfgang59Atheists recognize sin. Atheists know what sin is. Why pretend to say you don't recognize sin when you know what sin is?
The thread is about recognising sin.
By your own definition
Sin is any thought, word or deed that
falls short of God's righteous standard
no atheist would acknowledge the concept of sin
since it requires a god (and not necessarily yours).
Why do you think acknowledging the concept of sin requires a God? That's like saying that since there's no God one can do whatever one pleases because there will be no consequences or accountability.
Originally posted by AgergAgerg, I'd welcome any comments you may have on these three lists on page two?
I too don't acknowledge the validity of "sin" in any discussion of morality. A number of things that are "sinful" are just daft - working on Sundays anyone!?? 😕
"Sin" is just acting in any way counter to the will of your notion of "God", and given that this entity is intrinsically immoral anyway, then rejecting this terminology on such grounds is wholly defensible.
"Would you regard any overt personal behaviors which involve other people [such as murder, drunkenness, theft, fornication or adultery]; or covert personal behaviors which often cluster [such as pride, jealously, bitterness, hatred, vindictiveness, implacability, envy, guilt feelings, worry, anxiety, fear or self pity] as sin? Also, what do you consider as the source of sin?"
"Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin? "So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. Behold how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life..." James 3:5-6"
Originally posted by AgergOriginally posted by Agerg
and the "Christian" I responded to (josephw), along with nearly all other fundamentalist Christians, holds that the Old Testament is as reliable as the new Testament.
The majority of Christians* regularly posting on these forums at the moment are 6000 year old earth, talking snake, Noah's ark, eternal hell believing fundamentalists - for them, the New Testame ...[text shortened]... hw, grampy bobby, RBHILL, RJHinds,[hidden]at least the character he plays[/hidden] to name but a few
"The majority of Christians* regularly posting on these forums at the moment are 6000 year old earth, [thread reference, please?] talking snake, Noah's ark, eternal hell believing fundamentalists - for them, the New Testament does NOT override the Old Testament.
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* Kellyjay, sonship, josephw, grampy bobby, RBHILL, RJHinds,
Originally posted by josephwI know what sin is. But I do not recognize it as a useful categorization of wrong doing. The concept of 'sin' requires a god. Without one, wrong doing is wrong doing, which has its own consequences, but it isn't a sin. Sin is a specifically religious concept.
Atheists recognize sin. Atheists know what sin is. Why pretend to say you don't recognize sin when you know what sin is?
Why do you think acknowledging the concept of sin requires a God? That's like saying that since there's no God one can do whatever one pleases because there will be no consequences or accountability.
Originally posted by rwingettI did, but you've hardly qualified either.
As I said earlier, if you cared to look, I recognize the concept of wrong doing, but not of sin.
Ultimately, all sin is against God. Sin implies justice before God. It strikes fear into the man.
Wrong doing is sin without accountability except for mere temporal punishment. All one needs to do is not get caught.
Originally posted by rwingettAn honest post. That's all I was looking for.
I know what sin is. But I do not recognize it as a useful categorization of wrong doing. The concept of 'sin' requires a god. Without one, wrong doing is wrong doing, which has its own consequences, but it isn't a sin. Sin is a specifically religious concept.
Now all I have to do is prove God exists! 😛
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Originally posted by rwingettI think rather we should heed this -
I know what sin is. But I do not recognize it as a useful categorization of wrong doing. The concept of 'sin' requires a god. Without one, wrong doing is wrong doing, which has its own consequences, but it isn't a sin. Sin is a specifically religious concept.
Let no one deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience.
And one has to have some idea of what straight is in order to recognize the crooked. The law of God was given that we may know what straight is.
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby to Agerg, an atheistShouldn't you be asking people who believe in "sin" ~ the Christians here, for example ~ whether they consider these behaviours to be "sin"?
Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin?
And if you are sincerely concerned about "overt personal behaviours of communications" like the ones you mentioned, why have you nominated Suzianne for "Best Poster" on this Thread 161936? It doesn't add up.