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Originally posted by FMF
Yes, it's people who are religious. If you want to declare certain or even all actions or thoughts of mine to be violations against the will of your God, by way of your own personal religious doctrine, then it's a matter for you. As for me, I don't "sin" and I stopped believing that I was a "sinner" over ten years ago.
I don't "sin" and I stopped believing that I was a "sinner" over ten years ago.
Maybe you give this some other name and feel safe.
Call this matter gumba instead of sin.
The point here is, is there an accounting, a final balancing of the moral books or not? If not then like Adolf Eichmann we may all jump laughing into our graves at what we got away with.
I'm banking on "getting away with" anything is an illusion.
It will be paid up at Calvary on Christ's cross.
Or it will be paid up when I meet God at the end of time.
Call it whatever you want to call it beside sin.
I'm convinced it is a rendezvous with the Perfect. I don't want to argue with Him "Well God can't you make it as if I never did it?"
He might say " I did. Did you reject that or receive that? "
What are you going to say then ?
Originally posted by sonshipI will continue to comment on what you assert about what you claim is "reality" and "truth" in this public arena when I find it incoherent, absurd or lacking in meaningful morality. Whether or not you have anything to say is a matter for you. 🙂
FMF, excuse me for bothering you. I think we really have talked enough.
I don't want to bother you about it any more.
Goodbye for good.
Interesting talking with you for awhile.
I'm at the end of the road with urging you to talk about the Gospel.
Originally posted by sonshipLike I said before, bearing in mind that I do not think God has communicated His wishes to us, including any indication that there is to be a 'divine accounting', can you give me a definition of "sin" that I could use to refer to my own immoral acts as "sins" whilst remaining true to my beliefs. Like I said, and as you appear to have demonstrated, you cannot. You have responded instead with sheaves of waffle that have pointedly circumnavigated what I have said to you.
The point here is, is there an accounting, a final balancing of the moral books or not? If not then like Adolf Eichmann we may all jump laughing into our graves at what we got away with.
I'm banking on "getting away with" anything is an illusion.
It will be paid up at Calvary on Christ's cross.
Or it will be paid up when I meet God at the ...[text shortened]... might say " I did. Did you reject that or receive that? "
What are you going to say then ?
"Would you regard any overt personal behaviors which involve other people [such as murder, drunkenness, theft, fornication or adultery]; or covert personal behaviors which often cluster [such as pride, jealously, bitterness, hatred, vindictiveness, implacability, envy, guilt feelings, worry, anxiety, fear or self pity] as sin? Also, what do you consider as the source of sin?"
"Finally, would you regard the overt personal behaviors of communications [speech and written] such as judging, maligning, bullying, gossiping, criticizing and lying sin? "So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. Behold how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life..." James 3:5-6" (Pg 2)
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All of us were born physically alive and spiritually dead because of the sin nature. "Therefore, just as through one man [Adam] sin [sin nature] entered the world, and [spiritual] death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned." Romans 5:12 The sin nature resides in the cell structure of our bodies and is passed on genetically by procreation from Adam to the rest of the human race. It is the source of temptation to sin; the source of sin itself is human volition [the decider within our souls]. Every sin nature has many facets [areas of strength and weakness; trends toward asceticism or lasciviousness; and lust patterns]. Since there is nothing we can do to remove it God provided the grace solution: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." 2 Corinthians 5:21
When Christ was crucified He received the penalty for every sin of the human race: "He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the cross." 1 Peter 2:24 Christ's separation from God the Father during the final three hours at Golgotha satisfied the Justice and Righteousness of God; sin was eliminated as the issue. God's plan reconciled the total depravity of human nature with His Holiness [the integrity of perfect righteousness and justice]. Any member of the human race can be saved from eternal condemnation and have an eternal relationship with God simply by believing in Jesus Christ as Savior.
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I do thnk you ought to be a little more resilient than succumbing to this petulant Galvestonesque flounce off, when it is you who are making the ultimate pitch regarding the price of sin - eternal burning in hell.
I do recall you dismissing me one or two times.
I have long conversed and argued with this poster.
I do not have to leave an impression of hounding or begging someone to become a believer in Christ.
He knows something about what I have been sharing.
I know his level of interest.
Time for me to spend some time with others.
You have something here you say we should remember ?
Let's remember that the Bible tells us the "consequences of sin is death" and you (and many if not most of the alleged Christians here also) say that the consequence of sin is not in fact "death", it is life for eternity in an incinerator while Jesus watches (yes that's what some here beleive Jesus will be doing based on that scripture in revelation).
I believe that "the second death" in Revelation does not mean one returns to the exact same state as the supposed first death.
There must be a reason why God's word specifies "the second death". It does not appear as returning the exact thing as having DIED physically one time before. In other words it is not the SECOND TIME dead but "the second death".
Your argument, which I respectfully cannot go along with, is that when the Bible mentions "the second death" it merely means a return to death once more a second time.
First of all, I think your understanding is that the FIRST time one DIES he is annihilated into nothingness of non-being. Then at the last judgment he is resurrected, judged, and if condemned to eternal punishment, he is RETURNED to death of annihilation of non-being. This, you imagine is what is meant by "the second death".
IE. Living -
Physical Death = annhilation into non-being
Resurreced at Judgement
Physical Death again = annhilation into non-being (the second death)
First of all - the FIRST dying apparently is NOT annihilation into non-existence. Too much biblical data demonstrates this.
Secondly - the second death has a "hurt" rather than a non-existence of annihilation. See for example (Revelation 2:11)
"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall by no means be hurt of the second death."
The Facts are that:
1.) The First death does not appear to be non-existence for either believer or unbeliever.
2.) The Second death appears to consist of a "hurt" rather than an annihilation into non-being of non-existence.
Don't be annoyed with me about this biblical data.
Sure one can assume that SOMEwhere in all this error of the canon of the Scripture, their lies a hidden teaching which those of us who cannot believe God would so damn the lost, has to be extracted out. IE. "The Scripture is full of ERRORS. But dig deep enough and you can remove the truth from the wrong things and vindicate Annihilationism."
Some here believe that my alleged sin of refusing to believe the horrendous doctrine you believe means that I deserve to be burnt for eternity in hell and that therefore this "sin" overrides my salvation.
You're talking to me now. So deal with what I wrote.
When you want to argue a point with RJHinds or someone else, then address them about what they wrote.
The bottom line of this post is that I don't think the second death means merely a return to the previous death and no more.
Originally posted by sonshipDistilled to its irreducible, "second death" is eternal separation from God following physical death for those who reject Christ.I do thnk you ought to be a little more resilient than succumbing to this petulant Galvestonesque flounce off, when it is you who are making the ultimate pitch regarding the price of sin - eternal burning in hell.
I do recall you dismissing me one or two times.
I have long conversed and argued with this poster.
I do not h ...[text shortened]... that I don't think the second death means merely a return to the previous death and no more.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyRewards are during the millennial kingdom.
Maybe begin a new thread on what the scripture reveals about believers' eternal rewards for growing in grace in 2015.
In the new heaven and new earth the common portion of all the saved is a GIFT in grace.
Rewards pertain to the thousand years following the second coming of Christ.
Another thread would be better to discuss this.