Spirituality without religion

Originally posted by widget
Depends on what kind of relationship, who's deciding good, and the location of paradise 😉

What do you mean good?

It is not about being good.
Isaiah 64:6a
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags

Originally posted by RBHILL
What do you mean good?

It is not about being good.
Isaiah 64:6a
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags

Isn't somebody who eats pork also unclean?

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Isn't somebody who eats pork also unclean?

Ask Peter.

Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
Isn't somebody who eats pork also unclean?

Why do you mock the Word of God?

Originally posted by RBHILL
Why do you mock the Word of God?

The worst disservice one can do to God is to take Him at His Word.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Why do you mock the Word of God?

I'm just asking. Is a pork eater unclean or not?

Originally posted by RBHILL
What do you mean good?
... all our righteous acts are like filthy rags

Originally posted by RBHILL
Are you telling me that a relationship with Jesus Christ is not good enough?

You brought up "good". 🙄 My concern was exactly what you raised, RB: How do we/you define good?

Rent-ing and self-flagellating may be the order of the day in your particular world, RB, but where I live my righteous acts (though I'd never presume to call them that...) are silken promises not filthy rags.

Originally posted by widget
Originally posted by RBHILL
[b]Are you telling me that a relationship with Jesus Christ is not good enough?

You brought up "good". 🙄 My concern was exactly what you raised, RB: How do we/you define good?

Rent-ing and self-flagellating may be the order of the day in your particular world, RB, but where I live my righteous acts (though I'd never presume to call them that...) are silken promises not filthy rags.[/b]

Have you kept all the ten commandments without breaking one your whole life?
Only Jesus saves John 14:6; so being good or bad doesn't save you.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I dont accept God because He is unverifiable. I cannot refute that if he appeared to me, I wasn't tripping out on some strange fungus. So even if there is a truth, its impossible for an indivdual to be absolutely certain of it.

Interestingly I do not accept atheism for the very reason that I find it unverifiable. Instead I choose to believe that GOD IS.

So even if there is a truth, its impossible for an indivdual to be absolutely certain of it.

This is the reason I would find it impossible to say WHAT God is with any certainty.

Originally posted by widget
and the location of paradise

Oh, this ones easy...

http://www.townofparadise.com/

Originally posted by JadeMantis
Interestingly I do not accept atheism for the very reason that I find it unverifiable. Instead I choose to believe that GOD IS.

[b]So even if there is a truth, its impossible for an indivdual to be absolutely certain of it.

This is the reason I would find it impossible to say WHAT God is with any certainty.[/b]

I am certain that there is a God, as well. But i will usually identify myself as atheist because I hold a different definition of God and because i find that this God, by logical constraints, in unknowable.

[EDIT] You are right, though, atheism is unverifiable and from a scientific point the only justifiable position is agnosticism (which lacks any preference or prejudice in favour of either.).

Originally posted by JadeMantis
Interestingly I do not accept atheism for the very reason that I find it unverifiable. Instead I choose to believe that GOD IS.

[b]So even if there is a truth, its impossible for an indivdual to be absolutely certain of it.

This is the reason I would find it impossible to say WHAT God is with any certainty.[/b]

Interestingly I do not accept atheism for the very reason that I find it unverifiable. Instead I choose to believe that GOD IS.

If your 'choice' to believe GOD IS is predicated solely on the notion that the strong atheist's claim "God does not exist" is unverifiable, then, presumably, under the same standards you also have 'chosen' the following beliefs:

MAGICAL ELVES ARE
THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER IS
THE SIX-FOOT INVISIBLE RABBIT STANDING RIGHT BEHIND YOU IS
INVISIBLE UNICORNS ARE
.
.
.
.(etcetera)

Surely (hopefully) you have better reasons upon which your belief GOD IS is predicated. Don't you think one has at least a prima facie epistemic obligation NOT to pick and 'choose' beliefs in such a manner?

Originally posted by LemonJello

under the same standards you also have 'chosen' the following beliefs:
THE SIX-FOOT INVISIBLE RABBIT STANDING RIGHT BEHIND YOU IS
Of course not. There is no invisible six-foot rabbit standing right behind me. He is entirely visible and sitting on the chair next to me 😀

Seriously: too many descriptors, so no.

My belief that God IS also requires sufficient freedom to be allowed in the meaning of the term God. The list you have given would be in the same category of named gods or specific conceptualisations of what god is. To me God is an amorphous term referring to some sort of prime cause and ultimate reality. So God IS. Whatever that may be.
I think the C.S. Lewis quote from earlier would very much apply to me:
The God I believe in, is not the one you don't believe in.

Surely (hopefully) you have better reasons upon which your belief GOD IS is predicated.

A second step was to arrive at MINIMAL definitions of what God MIGHT be that would be really trivial to prove. For example, God could be the sum total of all the observed matter in the universe, then God IS. Of course, I am also influenced by the fact that I was raised in a Christian Mystical tradition, so I am certainly NOT a materialist at heart and would therefore consider that my mystical experiances also ARE.
To me God IS because God IS what IS.
That is what I see when I read "I AM that which I AM"

I would say that my opinion on the nature of God is essentially panentheistic with monistic tendencies, I just do not claim to have any proof.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I am certain that there is a God, as well. But i will usually identify myself as atheist because I hold a different definition of God and because i find that this God, by logical constraints, in unknowable.

Interesting. I think we have similar positions, I just choose to challenge the definitions instead.

Originally posted by RBHILL
Have you kept all the ten commandments without breaking one your whole life?
Only Jesus saves John 14:6; so being good or bad doesn't save you.

And just how does this fit into a thread called "Spirituality without religion"? 😕

😉 Not being spent or wasted, why get all knotted up about being saved?

🙄"There's nowhere to go. You're here already."🙄