Suicide is painless...

Originally posted by FMF
Perhaps. But my rule of thumb is: Do no harm to others, Do not deceive, Do not coerce. I can see many suicides as being a case of doing harm to others and therefore not morally acceptable.

Does that rule of thumb apply even at the expense of harm to oneself? Surely there is a balance where harm to oneself should not be excessive with respect to the prevented harm to others. So one does not go around giving up ones life or submitting to torture just to prevent someone else from minor injury or minor emotional stress for example.
So the question is whether the suicide may prevent extreme harm to the person (suffering due to incurable disease for example) exceeds the harm to those who might be distressed by the suicide. When the suicide is not due to incurable disease but some other emotional distress then the equation becomes more complicated, but surely someone who is not mentally ill and is willing to die has good reasons and we should consider whether or not their distress exceeds the potential distress of those left behind.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Does that rule of thumb apply even at the expense of harm to oneself? Surely there is a balance where harm to oneself should not be excessive with respect to the prevented harm to others. So one does not go around giving up ones life or submitting to torture just to prevent someone else from minor injury or minor emotional stress for example.
So the ques ...[text shortened]... ould consider whether or not their distress exceeds the potential distress of those left behind.

One reason would be intractable pain from say, terminal cancer or something like that, no cure, just endless pain till death. Death in that case would be preferable.

Originally posted by sonhouse
One reason would be intractable pain from say, terminal cancer or something like that, no cure, just endless pain till death. Death in that case would be preferable.

Preferable for whom? Obviously if someone wants to commit suicide, then death is preferable to them whatever the circumstances (or so they judge it to be and who are we to disagree). But what about all those left behind? Some will be understanding and realise that unnecessary suffering can be avoided and be happy when a terminal patient dies, others may be saddened by it.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I hate the attention seekers who slash their wrists only to survive time and time again.
People that really want to kill themselves may not tell anyone or even leave a note. The method they employ is near 100% sure in achieving it's purpose.
Interestingly in this first world country,Australia, where we have it good. Minimal homeless people compared to ...[text shortened]... ed that could better be put to working on world peace or whatever "He" contemplates...

Maybe being a suicide was the thing they had to learn, to experience that depth of despair?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
I hate the attention seekers who slash their wrists only to survive time and time again.

Why? What do you have against attention seekers? Do you think they don't really need attention, or that they are going about it the wrong way? What if they cant get attention any other way, or they don't know any other way?

Why so many young people killing themselves while living in one of the most affluent countries in the world?
Money doesn't solve all problems. Also, 18-25 is a difficult time of life. You are faced with new problems / responsibilities and you don't know how to handle them. Also you are old enough to feel embarrassed when you fail (even to the point of suicide due to peer pressure) and not yet old enough to know when failing is OK. Combine this with all the major changes in brain chemistry at this age, the high incidence of drug use, the first serious romantic relationships etc.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
Maybe being a suicide was the thing they had to learn, to experience that depth of despair?

Maybe. But I dont think so. Suicide is a reminder that we do in fact have free will upto a point (our physical, psycic limitations).
From my limited point of view I would say it's the wrong thing todo, but viewed from a higher dimension there is no right and wrong, so --- thats about as far as my limited understanding comprehends ...

Originally posted by twhitehead
[b]Why so many young people killing themselves while living in one of the most affluent countries in the world?
Money doesn't solve all problems. Also, 18-25 is a difficult time of life. You are faced with new problems / responsibilities and you don't know how to handle them. Also you are old enough to feel embarrassed when you fail (even to the poin ...[text shortened]... try at this age, the high incidence of drug use, the first serious romantic relationships etc.[/b]

I agree. My father and sister were/are teachers and from what they say the pressure on young people in the educational system is immense. My sister teaches in one of the top rated 10 schools in the UK in a wealthy part of the country and yet recently a teenager from a 'good family' committed suicide by hanging themselves. No dugs involved, no boyfriend issues, just academic pressure from the parents and the system it was suspected.

Originally posted by divegeester
I agree. My father and sister were/are teachers and from what they say the pressure on young people in the educational system is immense. My sister teaches in one of the top rated 10 schools in the UK in a wealthy part of the country and yet recently a teenager from a 'good family' committed suicide by hanging themselves. No dugs involved, no boyfriend issues, just academic pressure from the parents and the system it was suspected.

if only the proles committed suicide , instead of kids from good famillies.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
Maybe being a suicide was the thing they had to learn, to experience that depth of despair?

what about a failed suicide? Imagine the depths of despair then?

Imagine walking into a room where someone is standing on a chair while fixing rope to the ceiling rafters!!


"cup of tea?".... " it's just been a prick of a day"...what would you say ? (either party?)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
what about a failed suicide? Imagine the depths of despair then?

Imagine walking into a room where someone is standing on a chair while fixing rope to the ceiling rafters!!


"cup of tea?".... " it's just been a prick of a day"...what would you say ? (either party?)

"Those rafters look like 2x4. I suggest a good solid 2x8 to get the job done ... hey there's a 2x8 .. good luck .. and get it right this time!"

Originally posted by Rajk999
I think everyone would accept that nobody should take their own life.

The question is if they do, is it a sin and would it eliminate their chance of eternal life.

The question is if they do, is it a sin and would it eliminate their chance of eternal life.

If they had not been saved, it might very well be their throwing away the opportunity to believe into Christ.

Originally posted by divegeester
In reference to Thread 146470 I though I would open a discussion here about suicide. Specifically

Is it a sin?

If so will all suicides go to hell? Or at least be excluded from Heaven?

Is assisting someone to commit suicide a sin, and a sin in all circumstances?

Atheists, is it morally acceptable for a person to commit suicide?

Any other comments or perspectives...?

After I retired from the Army, I worked at a local veterans hospital for a little over a year. There was a patient there with his face shot off. It was not due to the Vietnam War, but due to his attempted suicide, I was told by a nurse. They are keeping him alive, but I wonder what he thinks about it now.

P.S. He may not be alive now, I don't know. I meant I wonder what he thought about his failed attempt lying there in that hospital bed.

Originally posted by RJHinds
After I retired from the Army, I worked at a local veterans hospital for a little over a year. There was a patient there with his face shot off. It was not due to the Vietnam War, but due to his attempted suicide, I was told by a nurse. They are keeping him alive, but I wonder what he thinks about it now.

P.S. He may not be alive now, I don't know. I meant I wonder what he thought about his failed attempt lying there in that hospital bed.

That's a sad account indeed.

Do you have a view on the questions raised in the OP

Originally posted by divegeester
That's a sad account indeed.

Do you have a view on the questions raised in the OP

In general, I do not see suicide as beneficial.

Originally posted by RJHinds
In general, I do not see suicide as beneficial.

Wow.